Flame Angel with white dot

Tiny Turtle · 01-23-2002, 06:26 AM

I don't know if we've mentioned this before but I couldn't find the thread, so here goes:

Lately I've3 been running the SS with the Automatic lights set to Off and the background black. This is when I noticed a white dot under the tailfin of the Flame Angel. It shouldn't be a biggie, but I can't stop noticing it. Anybody else seen this?

/Calle

Yellow Tang · 01-23-2002, 01:16 PM

Yes it's there. I can see it!
Nice little white dot. At the end of the tailfin of the Picasso Trigger is another one.

But I think, we shouldn't sit so close to the screen!

Jim Sachs · 01-23-2002, 01:23 PM

No sign of it here.

Darrell L · 01-24-2002, 07:49 AM

No white dots here.

The_Thrill · 01-24-2002, 02:24 PM

I havent yet seen the white dots. But this picture is something ive noticed before. Im guessing that its just where textures dont meet on the fish. When the background is brighter you cant see but that explanation is pretty obvious. Not picking just adding my two cents

feldon34 · 01-24-2002, 03:39 PM

You have a beta of the Aquarium we don't have?

The_Thrill · 01-24-2002, 05:25 PM

say what...

feldon34 · 01-24-2002, 06:40 PM

Wow, you'd probably win if we had a contest "name that fish" and people had to come up with the most unusual shapshots of each fish.

The dots on the sides and looking at the underside completely threw me. I didn't realize it was a dithered snapshot of the underside of a Picasso Trigger.

What a mindstretch!

Gerty · 01-24-2002, 07:00 PM

WAY COOL!!!! (I think I typed this once before, but can't seem to find it, so I'll do it all over again)
I just noticed today the star fish moves. It is very, very cool!!!
I haven't had the screen saver long, so that's probably I just noticed it today, but it is very, very realistic.

Good job, Jim, and a pat on your back for all your hard work!!
Aloha,
Gerty

The_Thrill · 01-24-2002, 09:30 PM

Ahhh Now i see what you are saying. I made Picasso Trigger the subject of my post but i never really emphasized it. So does anybody know what those black spots are? Are they missing textures where the sides pf the fish meet up?

Feldon what did you mean by dithering?

feldon34 · 01-24-2002, 10:51 PM

Yes, the black areas are where the white isn't a perfect seam I think.

The dithering is the red dots on top of the white that originally was a very light pink. I'm guessing when you saved as a GIF, you limited the colors to 64 or 32 with dithering on.

I didn't see the "Picasso Trigger" header.

Jim Sachs · 01-24-2002, 10:55 PM

Some of the fish, like the Picasso Trigger, use a texture map that is 128x64. Some cards (like the ones I used when creating the Aquarium) use all the bits in these pictures. But others can only use square textures, so they reduce the size to 64x64. The chin of the Picasso Trigger stays within its boundary at the higher resolution, but some corners of transparent pixels start to creep in at 64x64. Will be fixed in 1.1.

Though the effect is similar, this is different than polygon holes. The gill holes that some beta tersters have seen in the Lionfish are a good example of this. When the Lionfish "breathes", an edge of the gill polygons come out away from the body. I stretched the underlying polygons way up underneath this opening, but if the camera angle is extremely steep, a slit can still show. I'll try to refine this, but there's a limit to how far I can stretch the underlying material before wierd things start to happen.

There's even a third phenomenon which has almost the same effect, but is unrelated to either of the other two. The edges of the fins have transparent and translucent areas. In most situations, the background pixels are painted first, then they are modified by "misting" in the fins over them. But the dorsal, caudal, and anal fins are part of the body, and there are times when they get painted before some other parts of the body. That means that their pixels get mixed with the background color (usually blue-green), and the farther-away body pixels never get a chance to get painted. It's a chicken-and-egg thing, but if you think of it as a highlight on the edge of a silhouetted fish's fins, it actually looks kind of good.

Socrates · 01-25-2002, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Gerty

I just noticed today the star fish moves.

Now can you figure out how to make him do his little trick? It's pretty cool.

Yellow Tang · 01-25-2002, 10:20 AM

Just to show what I mean with 'little white dot' (I think it's a driver problem):

Jim Sachs · 01-25-2002, 12:29 PM

That one is known, but could you send a pic of the Flame Angel with the dot?

feldon34 · 01-25-2002, 01:05 PM

Wow, never noticed that.

Ok, I see the Picasso Trigger's white dot on my 16mb TnT RiVa. Really have to be looking for it.

But I don't see it on the Flame Angel, on black or green background.

Tiny Turtle · 01-25-2002, 03:25 PM

On this image you can see the position of the white dot. The dot sputters a bit so I guess I could get a slightly different error if I tried some more...

/Calle

Tiny Turtle · 01-25-2002, 03:28 PM

Oops! Guess I should have attached the image again after previewing the post. (Just found out that you can't add an image in "edit mode").

The_Thrill · 01-25-2002, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the explaination Jim and Feldon!

Gerty · 01-25-2002, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Socrates

Now can you figure out how to make him do his little trick? It's pretty cool.

No, Socrates, please tell me about his little trick!! Is it the one of him crawling up on the glass????

I am fairly new to this and haven't really had a lot of time to do some messing around with the settings and stuff. So I'm open for any comments/suggestions.

Thanks.
Gerty

01-23-2002, 06:26 AM	#1
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Flame Angel with white dot I don't know if we've mentioned this before but I couldn't find the thread, so here goes: Lately I've3 been running the SS with the Automatic lights set to Off and the background black. This is when I noticed a white dot under the tailfin of the Flame Angel. It shouldn't be a biggie, but I can't stop noticing it. Anybody else seen this? /Calle

01-23-2002, 01:16 PM	#2
Yellow Tang YT Join Date: Jan 2002 Tournaments Won: 1 Location: Germany Posts: 729	Yes it's there. I can see it! Nice little white dot. At the end of the tailfin of the Picasso Trigger is another one. But I think, we shouldn't sit so close to the screen! Last edited by Yellow Tang; 01-23-2002 at 01:24 PM.

01-23-2002, 01:23 PM	#3
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	No sign of it here. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-24-2002, 02:24 PM	#5
The_Thrill Nittany Lion Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: State College Posts: 49	Picasso Trigger I havent yet seen the white dots. But this picture is something ive noticed before. Im guessing that its just where textures dont meet on the fish. When the background is brighter you cant see but that explanation is pretty obvious. Not picking just adding my two cents Thrill

01-24-2002, 03:39 PM	#6
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	You have a beta of the Aquarium we don't have? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-24-2002, 07:49 AM	#4
Darrell L Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20	No white dots here.

01-24-2002, 05:25 PM	#7
The_Thrill Nittany Lion Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: State College Posts: 49	say what... Thrill

01-24-2002, 06:40 PM	#8
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Wow, you'd probably win if we had a contest "name that fish" and people had to come up with the most unusual shapshots of each fish. The dots on the sides and looking at the underside completely threw me. I didn't realize it was a dithered snapshot of the underside of a Picasso Trigger. What a mindstretch! "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-24-2002, 07:00 PM	#9
Gerty Somewhat Confused Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 83	Star Fish WAY COOL!!!! (I think I typed this once before, but can't seem to find it, so I'll do it all over again) I just noticed today the star fish moves. It is very, very cool!!! I haven't had the screen saver long, so that's probably I just noticed it today, but it is very, very realistic. Good job, Jim, and a pat on your back for all your hard work!! Aloha, Gerty

01-24-2002, 09:30 PM	#10
The_Thrill Nittany Lion Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: State College Posts: 49	Ahhh Now i see what you are saying. I made Picasso Trigger the subject of my post but i never really emphasized it. So does anybody know what those black spots are? Are they missing textures where the sides pf the fish meet up? Feldon what did you mean by dithering? Thrill

01-24-2002, 10:51 PM	#11
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Yes, the black areas are where the white isn't a perfect seam I think. The dithering is the red dots on top of the white that originally was a very light pink. I'm guessing when you saved as a GIF, you limited the colors to 64 or 32 with dithering on. I didn't see the "Picasso Trigger" header. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-24-2002, 10:55 PM	#12
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	Some of the fish, like the Picasso Trigger, use a texture map that is 128x64. Some cards (like the ones I used when creating the Aquarium) use all the bits in these pictures. But others can only use square textures, so they reduce the size to 64x64. The chin of the Picasso Trigger stays within its boundary at the higher resolution, but some corners of transparent pixels start to creep in at 64x64. Will be fixed in 1.1. Though the effect is similar, this is different than polygon holes. The gill holes that some beta tersters have seen in the Lionfish are a good example of this. When the Lionfish "breathes", an edge of the gill polygons come out away from the body. I stretched the underlying polygons way up underneath this opening, but if the camera angle is extremely steep, a slit can still show. I'll try to refine this, but there's a limit to how far I can stretch the underlying material before wierd things start to happen. There's even a third phenomenon which has almost the same effect, but is unrelated to either of the other two. The edges of the fins have transparent and translucent areas. In most situations, the background pixels are painted first, then they are modified by "misting" in the fins over them. But the dorsal, caudal, and anal fins are part of the body, and there are times when they get painted before some other parts of the body. That means that their pixels get mixed with the background color (usually blue-green), and the farther-away body pixels never get a chance to get painted. It's a chicken-and-egg thing, but if you think of it as a highlight on the edge of a silhouetted fish's fins, it actually looks kind of good. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-25-2002, 03:10 AM	#13
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	Re: Star Fish Originally posted by Gerty I just noticed today the star fish moves. Now can you figure out how to make him do his little trick? It's pretty cool. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

01-25-2002, 12:29 PM	#15
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	That one is known, but could you send a pic of the Flame Angel with the dot? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-25-2002, 01:05 PM	#16
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Wow, never noticed that. Ok, I see the Picasso Trigger's white dot on my 16mb TnT RiVa. Really have to be looking for it. But I don't see it on the Flame Angel, on black or green background. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-25-2002, 03:25 PM	#17
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	On this image you can see the position of the white dot. The dot sputters a bit so I guess I could get a slightly different error if I tried some more... /Calle

01-25-2002, 04:54 PM	#19
The_Thrill Nittany Lion Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: State College Posts: 49	Thanks for the explaination Jim and Feldon! Thrill

01-25-2002, 05:48 PM	#20
Gerty Somewhat Confused Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 83	Re: Star Fish Originally posted by Socrates Now can you figure out how to make him do his little trick? It's pretty cool. No, Socrates, please tell me about his little trick!! Is it the one of him crawling up on the glass???? I am fairly new to this and haven't really had a lot of time to do some messing around with the settings and stuff. So I'm open for any comments/suggestions. Thanks. Gerty