Marine Aquarium 3 Rumors and Speculation - Page 26

cjmaddy · 04-26-2007, 05:12 AM

So, dare we now say, that you have come out of the shade, and seen the light?

.... Sorry 'bout that!

... But very many congratulations! ... Yeah!!!

This event deserves an all-round celebration! .....

patscarr · 04-26-2007, 06:11 AM

Great Jim!

feldon34 · 04-26-2007, 07:27 AM

This is nothing short of fantastic news.

Jav400 · 04-26-2007, 07:38 AM

Great work Jim.

Tiny Turtle · 04-26-2007, 08:28 AM

What she said!

Jim Sachs · 04-26-2007, 01:28 PM

More good news. I just solved a problem that the Aquarium had suffered from since Day 1. Without getting too technical, people often noticed that the edges of the lightplay did not always exactly match each object. In the current version, this is because the "objects" are just part of the 2D background, while the lightplay is projected on a "pretend" 3D object in front of it. Creating and matching all these invisible objects with the background pictures is extremely difficult.

Well, the 3D version has a problem that's visually identical to this, but for a different reason. Each object is drawn in two passes - first the object, then the lightplay, using the same mesh. The holes and rough edges of each object are not in the mesh, they are only in the texture. The alpha channel tells the renderer not to draw any pixels in these areas. Now along comes the next pass, and draws lighplay pixels over the whole object - holes and all - right out to the edges of the polygons.

There are recommended ways of dealing with this, but they simply don't work. Well, I finally discovered settings for the Alpha system and Z buffer which cleared the problem right up. Here's a before and after pic:

Jav400 · 04-26-2007, 01:41 PM

Oh wow, more great news. Seems like you are making progress in leaps and bounds the last few days.

Now its just a matter of implementing all of it.

Marian Nichols · 04-26-2007, 02:13 PM

He's on a roll, when it rains it pores!

jmeacham · 04-26-2007, 02:56 PM

I'm glad to hear you broke through some barriers. Your screensaver is by far my fav! I can't wait for the next version. By the way will I need a seperate graphics card to run it?

Jim Sachs · 04-26-2007, 03:10 PM

So far, the new version works pretty well with just the on-board graphics chips in both my HP machines. There are still a lot of objects to add, but right now I'm getting over 40 frames per second at 1920x1200x16. These cards support vertex shaders but not pixel shaders. There is one subtle effect I'd like to use which would require pixel shaders, but I'll probably write it so that it's just not used if the machine doesn't support it.

EVERRET · 04-26-2007, 03:47 PM

Jim, Great to hear of some legitimate progress...... YEA !

Tiny Turtle · 04-26-2007, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

<snip> There is one subtle effect I'd like to use which would require pixel shaders, but I'll probably write it so that it's just not used if the machine doesn't support it.

That's the best piece of news for me. Thanks for choosing this path!

drfish · 04-26-2007, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

...These cards support vertex shaders but not pixel shaders.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the chip probably isn't doing the vertex shader work, they are commonly emulated on the processor in low end chips, pixel shaders cannot however be emulated (well at least they aren't ever, I'm sure they could be, for a terrible performance hit)...

patscarr · 04-26-2007, 06:02 PM

Keep up the great work, Jim!

Jim Sachs · 04-26-2007, 08:36 PM

Doc - Both machines say they have v1.1 vertex shaders. Pixel Shaders are available in Emulation Mode, but then it's a slideshow, not an animation.

cjmaddy · 04-27-2007, 05:20 AM

Anyone wonder what the hell they're talking about?

..... shader

Note! - It might be worth stoping when you reach the Wiki section, otherwise your brain might start to hurt! ... Mine did!!!

Marian Nichols · 04-27-2007, 05:25 AM

I'll just take their word for it, I don't need to know how it works just that it works. Save on aspirin for my headaches.

Yodelking · 04-27-2007, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

More good news. I just solved a problem that the Aquarium had suffered from since Day 1. Without getting too technical...

I didn't understand a thing, but the screenshot was nice!

Anyway, fantastic new that you got pass some problems all of a sudden.

Gonna show the screensaver at my scuba course, showing the
humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa...

feldon34 · 04-27-2007, 08:16 AM

So much easier to just say "humu trigger". Oh well.

Tiny Turtle · 04-27-2007, 08:24 AM

Hawaiian is a pretty laid back language otherwise, huh? Nothing sharp in it - just smooth waves...

04-26-2007, 06:11 AM	#502
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,460	Great Jim! Patrick

04-26-2007, 07:27 AM	#503
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	This is nothing short of fantastic news. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-26-2007, 07:38 AM	#504
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Great work Jim. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

04-26-2007, 08:28 AM	#505
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	What she said! Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

04-26-2007, 01:41 PM	#507
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Oh wow, more great news. Seems like you are making progress in leaps and bounds the last few days. Now its just a matter of implementing all of it. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

04-26-2007, 05:12 AM	#501
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	So, dare we now say, that you have come out of the shade, and seen the light? .... Sorry 'bout that! ... But very many congratulations! ... Yeah!!! This event deserves an all-round celebration! .....

04-26-2007, 02:13 PM	#508
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	He's on a roll, when it rains it pores! Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

04-26-2007, 02:56 PM	#509
jmeacham Registered Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2	YEAH PROGRESS I'm glad to hear you broke through some barriers. Your screensaver is by far my fav! I can't wait for the next version. By the way will I need a seperate graphics card to run it?

04-26-2007, 03:10 PM	#510
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	So far, the new version works pretty well with just the on-board graphics chips in both my HP machines. There are still a lot of objects to add, but right now I'm getting over 40 frames per second at 1920x1200x16. These cards support vertex shaders but not pixel shaders. There is one subtle effect I'd like to use which would require pixel shaders, but I'll probably write it so that it's just not used if the machine doesn't support it. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-26-2007, 03:47 PM	#511
EVERRET Leopard Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: california Posts: 115	Thanks For The Updates! Jim, Great to hear of some legitimate progress...... YEA !

04-26-2007, 04:35 PM	#512
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: <snip> There is one subtle effect I'd like to use which would require pixel shaders, but I'll probably write it so that it's just not used if the machine doesn't support it. That's the best piece of news for me. Thanks for choosing this path! Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

04-26-2007, 05:45 PM	#513
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,374	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: ...These cards support vertex shaders but not pixel shaders. Correct me if I'm wrong but the chip probably isn't doing the vertex shader work, they are commonly emulated on the processor in low end chips, pixel shaders cannot however be emulated (well at least they aren't ever, I'm sure they could be, for a terrible performance hit)... I don't watch commercials.

04-26-2007, 06:02 PM	#514
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,460	Keep up the great work, Jim! Patrick

04-26-2007, 08:36 PM	#515
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	Doc - Both machines say they have v1.1 vertex shaders. Pixel Shaders are available in Emulation Mode, but then it's a slideshow, not an animation. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-27-2007, 05:20 AM	#516
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Anyone wonder what the hell they're talking about? ..... shader Note! - It might be worth stoping when you reach the Wiki section, otherwise your brain might start to hurt! ... Mine did!!!

04-27-2007, 05:25 AM	#517
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	I'll just take their word for it, I don't need to know how it works just that it works. Save on aspirin for my headaches. Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

04-27-2007, 07:39 AM	#518
Yodelking yodeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Staffanstorp, Sweden Posts: 294	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: More good news. I just solved a problem that the Aquarium had suffered from since Day 1. Without getting too technical... I didn't understand a thing, but the screenshot was nice! Anyway, fantastic new that you got pass some problems all of a sudden. Gonna show the screensaver at my scuba course, showing the humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa... Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!

04-27-2007, 08:16 AM	#519
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	So much easier to just say "humu trigger". Oh well. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-27-2007, 08:24 AM	#520
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Hawaiian is a pretty laid back language otherwise, huh? Nothing sharp in it - just smooth waves... Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.