pirates suck

thebadgerone · 03-23-2003, 11:57 AM

I have trouble believing that team eat has already posted a serial for this. i sent a pm to Jim with the serial.
if you are the one who leaked it , i hope you rot.

this is the only program i have bought that i feel i have gotten more then my $ worth.

i hope profilic hunts these peeps down.

EddieWan · 03-23-2003, 12:06 PM

it is sad that people won't pay a small amount of money for a great program. All you can do is hope that someone tries the full version and decides it's worth buying it.

thebadgerone · 03-23-2003, 12:10 PM

you need to go with some sort of online reg.

feldon34 · 03-23-2003, 01:26 PM

Why are you surprised? No effort was made to make it difficult to pirate the Aquarium. There was only one group of people affected by the new keycodes, and it wasn't the warezies. Not only have the pirates given out keycodes, but they were able to watch, with a debugger, how the Aquarium decodes the keycode and make their own keycode generator!

Reichart and I had a discussion in the chatroom about various techniques that could be used in the future. He is familiar with the methods crackers use (don't ask

).

I would like to see the Aquarium run a checksum on the keycode parsing algorithym, the elements of the keycode parser strewn throughout the EXE and themselves encoded, and the Aquarium phoning home to check the validity of the keycode. And if 5+ IP addresses report in with the same keycode, turn that keycode off. Also, having rotating EXEs at SereneScreen.com wouldn't be bad. Have 10 slightly different versions of MA2, and they rotate every 2 hours.

If someone really wants to use the Aquarium in a pirated condition, that's fine, but it will deactivate itself if they forget to get off the Internet before running it.

And once a keycode is turned off, the Aquarium would write a key to the registry in one of the "bird's nest" regions.

I consider the protection in CuteFTP and WordZap sufficiently complicated such that the average person would give up and either buy it or delete it. They both phone home, among other steps.

thebadgerone · 03-23-2003, 01:59 PM

or as dreamrender does it with a checksum created for the machine it is registered on, and then online registration. the reg code will only work on one machine that way.

on a side note those with dial up get a new ip every time they log on, so with in 5 log on events they would be banned

feldon34 · 03-23-2003, 02:09 PM

Hmm...

Gigazoid · 03-23-2003, 03:53 PM

If it wasn't for the leaked key I would still be using 1.1 while all you other fans have 2.0. I bought and registered my copy of MA in May 2001 and still haven't received an email from Prolific. And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI. I'm not advocating piracy, but it's better than going without just because Prolific can't handle the amount of customers it has.

Sergiales · 03-23-2003, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by thebadgerone
or as dreamrender does it with a checksum created for the machine it is registered on, and then online registration. the reg code will only work on one machine that way.

Do you mean "Hardware dependent"?. And what if you change some component?, then the checksum will change too.

Quick Death · 03-23-2003, 05:34 PM

Aside from having the SS contact a local server to verify the key each time and the IP lock out, more suggestions are:

1. PGP serial key encryption
2. program based goto based on keycode

For example: part of the keycode would direct the program where to loop to. I've seen this done in some FTP and some medical programs, works well and decreases the fake keys. As well, you can base the serial on the registration name/hardware ID number of the video card.

If you combine all these ideas, the chances of someone wanting to create a fake serial are that much less.

-Just my 2cents. (add another 23 and you can make a phone call!)

Socrates · 03-23-2003, 09:27 PM

I think an up front activation process might be the easiest thing to set up. Let a key be used for activation precisely one time and make activation mandatory or your aquarium shuts off.

JimO'Connor · 03-23-2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Gigazoid
And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI.

Next release maintenance release (before early April, I expect) will not display the keycode.

Baek · 03-24-2003, 01:17 AM

feldon27 wrote;
[snip] ..and the Aquarium phoning home to check the validity of the keycode.

Sir. I feel the above would do far more harm than good.

IME, protection routines/algorithms are an double edged sword, the harder the nut to crack, the greater the temptation to crack it (and often, the more user-unfriendly software becomes.)

Speaking as an long time amateur C/ASM programmer, hardware dongle aside (and even then

) I have yet to dissect code that cannot be cracked, including that of multi-billion dollar corporations, with little dedication.

In short, don't bother wasting resources better spent elsewhere. Accept piracy exists, will always exist, rather, strive to produce software worth every penny.

Side-Note; How do I acquire Mr. Sachs widescreen aquarium?

feldon34 · 03-24-2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Baek
Sir. I feel the above would do far more harm than good.

IME, protection routines/algorithms are an double edged sword, the harder the nut to crack, the greater the temptation to crack it (and often, the more user-unfriendly software becomes.)

In short, don't bother wasting resources better spent elsewhere. Accept piracy exists, will always exist, rather, strive to produce software worth every penny.

The Aquarium had a key generator available 45 minutes after release, days before customers have been upgraded.

Right now, with 0 effort, we're getting 0 protection. The only people the keycode system frustrated this time around were the customers (and apparently, even a few of them weren't frustrated by it either

).

It doesn't cost much to add a few layers of protection to the Aquarium. The key is not to protect the Aquarium from you, but to protect the Aquarium such that the average person downloading it will try a few times to get it working, get frustrated, and either get out the plastic or delete it.

CuteFTP and WordZap are sufficiently difficult to pirate that I would imagine their sales are higher than if they just "left the barn door open" so to speak.

It should tell you something that CUSTOMERS are crying out for better protection from piracy in the Aquarium. I don't know too many products that have customers asking for that (vBulletin is another one).

Speaking as an long time amateur C/ASM programmer, hardware dongle aside (and even then

) I have yet to dissect code that cannot be cracked, including that of multi-billion dollar corporations, with little dedication.

Again, the protection is not to stop people like you. It's to stop the average person. Why do people cause $500 in vandalism damage to the car of a complete stranger because of minor parking infractions? Because they can!

If the key were plastic, or if the car were enamel-coated, or if there were a slight electric shock, 98% of people would give up. It's the 98%.

Side-Note; How do I acquire Mr. Sachs widescreen aquarium?

www.serenescreen.com under F.A.Q.

feldon34 · 03-24-2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Gigazoid
If it wasn't for the leaked key I would still be using 1.1 while all you other fans have 2.0. I bought and registered my copy of MA in May 2001 and still haven't received an email from Prolific. And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI. I'm not advocating piracy, but it's better than going without just because Prolific can't handle the amount of customers it has.

Gigazoid,

This is getting completely out-of-hand. I have tolerated the prior posts, but this is enough. Discussion of illicit keycodes and where to get them is COMPLETELY prohibited.

If you are too impatient to wait to get 2.0 the legitimate way, you could have purchased it. This is a FREE upgrade which makes Prolific no money and yet you expect them to expend big bucks in web hosting to get you YOUR download faster. By downloading the keycode generator and flaunting it here, you are encouraging other people to pirate the Aquarium rather than purchase it.

I think we can safely close this topic. Gigazoid, Baek, email your comments/concerns/demands to Prolific.

03-23-2003, 11:57 AM	#1
thebadgerone Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4	pirates suck I have trouble believing that team eat has already posted a serial for this. i sent a pm to Jim with the serial. if you are the one who leaked it , i hope you rot. this is the only program i have bought that i feel i have gotten more then my $ worth. i hope profilic hunts these peeps down.

03-23-2003, 12:06 PM	#2
EddieWan JediMaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tallahasse, Florida Posts: 183	it is sad that people won't pay a small amount of money for a great program. All you can do is hope that someone tries the full version and decides it's worth buying it. If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!

03-23-2003, 01:26 PM	#4
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Why are you surprised? No effort was made to make it difficult to pirate the Aquarium. There was only one group of people affected by the new keycodes, and it wasn't the warezies. Not only have the pirates given out keycodes, but they were able to watch, with a debugger, how the Aquarium decodes the keycode and make their own keycode generator! Reichart and I had a discussion in the chatroom about various techniques that could be used in the future. He is familiar with the methods crackers use (don't ask ). I would like to see the Aquarium run a checksum on the keycode parsing algorithym, the elements of the keycode parser strewn throughout the EXE and themselves encoded, and the Aquarium phoning home to check the validity of the keycode. And if 5+ IP addresses report in with the same keycode, turn that keycode off. Also, having rotating EXEs at SereneScreen.com wouldn't be bad. Have 10 slightly different versions of MA2, and they rotate every 2 hours. If someone really wants to use the Aquarium in a pirated condition, that's fine, but it will deactivate itself if they forget to get off the Internet before running it. And once a keycode is turned off, the Aquarium would write a key to the registry in one of the "bird's nest" regions. I consider the protection in CuteFTP and WordZap sufficiently complicated such that the average person would give up and either buy it or delete it. They both phone home, among other steps. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 03-24-2003 at 07:26 AM.

03-23-2003, 02:09 PM	#6
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Hmm... "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-23-2003, 04:03 PM	#8
Sergiales Software Engineer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 266	Originally posted by thebadgerone or as dreamrender does it with a checksum created for the machine it is registered on, and then online registration. the reg code will only work on one machine that way. Do you mean "Hardware dependent"?. And what if you change some component?, then the checksum will change too. Sincerely, Sergio.

03-23-2003, 12:10 PM	#3
thebadgerone Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4	you need to go with some sort of online reg.

03-23-2003, 01:59 PM	#5
thebadgerone Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4	or as dreamrender does it with a checksum created for the machine it is registered on, and then online registration. the reg code will only work on one machine that way. on a side note those with dial up get a new ip every time they log on, so with in 5 log on events they would be banned

03-23-2003, 03:53 PM	#7
Gigazoid Registered Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Apple Valley, CA Posts: 10	If it wasn't for the leaked key I would still be using 1.1 while all you other fans have 2.0. I bought and registered my copy of MA in May 2001 and still haven't received an email from Prolific. And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI. I'm not advocating piracy, but it's better than going without just because Prolific can't handle the amount of customers it has.

03-23-2003, 05:34 PM	#9
Quick Death Registered Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York Posts: 106	Aside from having the SS contact a local server to verify the key each time and the IP lock out, more suggestions are: 1. PGP serial key encryption 2. program based goto based on keycode For example: part of the keycode would direct the program where to loop to. I've seen this done in some FTP and some medical programs, works well and decreases the fake keys. As well, you can base the serial on the registration name/hardware ID number of the video card. If you combine all these ideas, the chances of someone wanting to create a fake serial are that much less. -Just my 2cents. (add another 23 and you can make a phone call!)

03-23-2003, 09:27 PM	#10
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	I think an up front activation process might be the easiest thing to set up. Let a key be used for activation precisely one time and make activation mandatory or your aquarium shuts off. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

03-23-2003, 09:41 PM	#11
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	Originally posted by Gigazoid And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI. Next release maintenance release (before early April, I expect) will not display the keycode. Jim O'Connor Order N Development

03-24-2003, 01:17 AM	#12
Baek Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 9	feldon27 wrote; [snip] ..and the Aquarium phoning home to check the validity of the keycode. Sir. I feel the above would do far more harm than good. IME, protection routines/algorithms are an double edged sword, the harder the nut to crack, the greater the temptation to crack it (and often, the more user-unfriendly software becomes.) Speaking as an long time amateur C/ASM programmer, hardware dongle aside (and even then ) I have yet to dissect code that cannot be cracked, including that of multi-billion dollar corporations, with little dedication. In short, don't bother wasting resources better spent elsewhere. Accept piracy exists, will always exist, rather, strive to produce software worth every penny. Side-Note; How do I acquire Mr. Sachs widescreen aquarium?

03-24-2003, 07:22 AM	#13
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Originally posted by Baek Sir. I feel the above would do far more harm than good. IME, protection routines/algorithms are an double edged sword, the harder the nut to crack, the greater the temptation to crack it (and often, the more user-unfriendly software becomes.) In short, don't bother wasting resources better spent elsewhere. Accept piracy exists, will always exist, rather, strive to produce software worth every penny. The Aquarium had a key generator available 45 minutes after release, days before customers have been upgraded. Right now, with 0 effort, we're getting 0 protection. The only people the keycode system frustrated this time around were the customers (and apparently, even a few of them weren't frustrated by it either ). It doesn't cost much to add a few layers of protection to the Aquarium. The key is not to protect the Aquarium from you, but to protect the Aquarium such that the average person downloading it will try a few times to get it working, get frustrated, and either get out the plastic or delete it. CuteFTP and WordZap are sufficiently difficult to pirate that I would imagine their sales are higher than if they just "left the barn door open" so to speak. It should tell you something that CUSTOMERS are crying out for better protection from piracy in the Aquarium. I don't know too many products that have customers asking for that (vBulletin is another one). Speaking as an long time amateur C/ASM programmer, hardware dongle aside (and even then ) I have yet to dissect code that cannot be cracked, including that of multi-billion dollar corporations, with little dedication. Again, the protection is not to stop people like you. It's to stop the average person. Why do people cause $500 in vandalism damage to the car of a complete stranger because of minor parking infractions? Because they can! If the key were plastic, or if the car were enamel-coated, or if there were a slight electric shock, 98% of people would give up. It's the 98%. Side-Note; How do I acquire Mr. Sachs widescreen aquarium? www.serenescreen.com under F.A.Q. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-24-2003, 07:25 AM	#14
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Originally posted by Gigazoid If it wasn't for the leaked key I would still be using 1.1 while all you other fans have 2.0. I bought and registered my copy of MA in May 2001 and still haven't received an email from Prolific. And I have no intention of using my real key code (if I get it) until OS X stops displaying it in the UI. I'm not advocating piracy, but it's better than going without just because Prolific can't handle the amount of customers it has. Gigazoid, This is getting completely out-of-hand. I have tolerated the prior posts, but this is enough. Discussion of illicit keycodes and where to get them is COMPLETELY prohibited. If you are too impatient to wait to get 2.0 the legitimate way, you could have purchased it. This is a FREE upgrade which makes Prolific no money and yet you expect them to expend big bucks in web hosting to get you YOUR download faster. By downloading the keycode generator and flaunting it here, you are encouraging other people to pirate the Aquarium rather than purchase it. I think we can safely close this topic. Gigazoid, Baek, email your comments/concerns/demands to Prolific. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman