Beta 11j discussion
 

Frame rate is much better, Jim :TU:

- 19-inch CRT Monitor
- Intel P4, 3.2 GHz, 4GB memory
- Windows XP Professional (32-bit)
- ATI Radeon HD3650, 512MB (AGP 8x)
- Full Screen Mode
- 23 fish in tank
- Bubble Column = ON
- Music = OFF
-------------------------------

Beta 11i with “limit frame rate” OFF
111.14 (1280x1024x32) #0 Beta 11i
HAL (pure hw vp): ATI Radeon HD3600 Series
Sleep(10) Window Size 1280x1024
----------------------------------------------

Beta 11i with “limit frame rate” ON (62)
58.75-62.42 (1280x1024x32) #0 Beta 11i
HAL (pure hw vp): ATI Radeon HD3600 Series
Sleep(17-18) Window Size 1280x1024
----------------------------------------------

Beta 11j with “limit frame rate” ON (62)
61.99-62.01 (1280x1024x32) #0 Beta 11j
HAL (pure hw vp): ATI Radeon HD3600 Series
Window Size 1280x1024


CPU Usage:
Thread #1: 20-30%
Thread #2: 10-20%

Corrupt zip file
 

Sorry I seem to be having problems with the ZIP file I have tried downloading it from a couple of different browsers and the ZIP file looks corrupt.

I couldn't extract it correctly with either WinZip or the standard Windows 7 tools.

7-Zip worked, although not from a right click. I had to open the main program and extract from there.

Won't extract properly for me, either.

:(

Windows XP at work will not extract it either

Weird file. Did get it to extract by downloading trial ver of winzip (v14.5).
But I use winrar (normally) for 100% of archive work.

That's what I just did.

Unzipped OK with that.

Observations.

11i frame limit set to 50 was providing frame rates from 49.2 to 50.4

11j same limit. Frame rates generally holding between 49.9 and 50.2. Ocassional very brief dips to 47 or 48fps. Maybe every 10 seconds or so.

P.S. Nobody thought to try 7-Zip? It's freeware. It works. I said so like an hour ago.

OK, when I first launch 11j I am seeing the Statistics display.

I shows:

0.00 fps (1680x1050x32) #0 Beta 11j

on the top line.

No longer shows "Sleep" setting info on 3rd line.

Obviously, the 0.00 frame rate is not correct since the fish are "swimming" happily, it's panning, and the stuff that's supposed to be moving is.

If I then choose a Frame Rate - 60 - the display shows a slightly varying FPS of between 59.94 to 60.04.

Turning "Limit Frame Rate" off appears to "lock in" the last used FPS.

Is all of this the way it is supposed to be, Jim?

I've used Winzip before, so I grabbed it quickly from download.com.

Did not realize that it is a "time limited" version until I installed it.

Will try 7-Zip next time if the Windows 7 built-in unzip doesn't handle a "zipped" file.

Thanks for the info, Nicki.

I see that in the "Program Settings" panel -

"Bubble Column"

and

"Bubble Sound"

are now together.

Anything else we should be looking for, Jim?

Geeze, I sounded uncharacteristically grumpy there JohnWho, didn't I? Just trying to help save some time :) .

I can duplicate what you have reported, but it wasn't doing that before. Maybe running 11i after 11j has something to do with it.

I'll try a registry purge.

I saw your helpful posting, but I'm not so anxious to try 11j that I'm rushing out to get YAZP (Yet Another Zip Program). Obviously, Jim needs to fix the .zip file - and perhaps tell us what (if anything) changed between 11i and 11j, in addition to the frame rate stuff.

We don't need to be spending time trying to test stuff that hasn't changed. That's a waste of our time, and Jim's time.

Good eye, henemly.

:TU:

Using fraps I've been able to ascertain that the frame rates are doing what they should, it's the stats display that isn't showing the correct rate. I've got another identical laptop to this, so I can check to see if I can duplicate what I reported in my earlier post. i.e. stats display working properly.

Nicki -

so, with "Limit Frame Rate" not on, when you first open MA and the Stats display shows 0.00 fps, what are you actually getting with fraps as the "default"?

With 7-Zip, I now have it working. (Thanks, Nicki)

Like others have said, 11j set for 60fps, now generates a more steady 60ish fps, and produces a more steady but slightly higher CPU usage.... Fine!

But.... the Etched Analog Clock is now noticeably off centre..... It doesn't look good. :(

While the frame rate is reading 0.00 in the stats display, fraps tells me I'm getting anywhere from 57fps to about 74 fps. Which is about what I would get before using a sleep of 10. I'm using all program defaults right now. 6 more fish than I usually have, so my earlier post is innacurate and needs to be edited.

We need some input from Jim.

Perhaps the "default" FPS, when showing 0.00, is what we were all getting with a "Sleep of 10". If so, I'm at about 111 fps.

Guess we should wait until we get "11k", which would fix the Stats display?

Definitely need to hear from Jim. I won't be able to test on the other laptop until later tonight anyway. Have to cook dinner etc.

I don't know if Jim has replaced the "zipped" file but it extracted just fine with my Winzip 12

Zip file- As some of you may know, I had to switch computers. This meant re-installing everything, including Winzip. The version I downloaded and installed is proabably different from the one I had been previously using. I'll look into it.

Lack of FPS readout when "Limit" is not used - You're right, my mistake. The frame counter is inside the Limit loop, so if that doesn't get exectuted, neither does the readout. Will fix.

Or, perhaps the settings you are using with the version that you did download.

http://kb.winzip.com/kb/entry/36/

Try using "Legacy" settings, if available.

Windows XP says "Did not recognize Compression Method".

Jim.. in Winzip 12 under options > configuration > miscellaneous there is a setting for "Optimize for best compression instead of Legacy" There is also a setting under Cameras; Compression where you can check Legacy compression (Zip 2.0 compatible). Perhaps one of those need to be tweaked....?

Test results from second laptop aren't really relevant now, the problem has been diagnosed. Hopefully the fraps figures helped narrow it down a bit. Mission accomplished it seems on tightening up the frame limit. A couple of people have noted the increased CPU. I'm getting about 50% usage at 50fps. Higher than I remember getting before but okay.

I just checked my new copy of Winzip. It's Winzip 14, and the settings it was using were for max compression and minimum compatibility. I'll switch it to max compatibility.

I'm pleased that you all seem to be able to maintain within about 1 fps of the target frame rates. There's another technique I came up with that cuts it slightly closer, but at 100% CPU usage.

Trying to maintain a certain FPS is kind of like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. By checking something, you change it. I'm using the High-Resolution Clock, but its heartbeat is so fast that just the command to check it uses about 30,000 "ticks". Any commands that I put in to check the timing drastically alters the timing. So now I'm getting pretty close with a Sleep() command, and then fine-tuning with a loop that basically asks, "Is it time yet? How about now? How about now?..."

Fixed version soon.

Its position was correct before, it is now off-centre.
The clock hands look reasonable, but the hour and minute markers need moving back down to the 11i position.
Here is a before and after shot taken at the mid-point of the crystal's total lateral movement.... Which do you think looks best ?

My vote goes to the one on the left (with the Yellow Tang).

It would help if both showed the same time.

Suggest 12:33 to match what henemly used, which shows the minute hand extending beyond the dial in 11j, but not in previous versions.

Your right JohnWho. Seems Jim moved the number marker frame up and to the right, as per my 1st suggestion, but the hands stayed the same, so of course the minute hand only extends beyond the markers when it's is in the downward position.

Whatever the time shown, it's the position of the hour and minute markers that are now off-centre in 11j.
The analog clock has not changed, so why change this one? - It was correct before.... See the above picture!

I'm putting it back the way it was.

Good.

I hate to tell you this, but I have some serious tearing in mine now. Limit frame rate makes no difference and wait for sync doesn't either.

Hmmm, the Limit Frame Rate would be affected if your system had no High-Resolution Clock, but none of the new code should involve VSync at all.

I'm trying to understand a couple of aspects of this frame rate situation:

A. Why is it important for the frame rate to be constant? Wouldn't +/- 15% or 20% be unnoticeable?

B. You say "target" frame rate. I understood (I thought) limit frame rate.

Great.

Will that be a re-zipped 11j, or 11k? Approximately when, please?

11k. when I can put two minutes together. Definitely within the current decade, probably this year (but don't hold me to it).