Upgrade fee for retail ? - Page 3

Jav400 · 03-20-2003, 04:13 PM

Jim,

You need to take the plunge and get some kind of broadband access. As a convert of only one week I am already spoiled and just can't believe how I ever did anything on dialup.

Yodelking · 03-20-2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
The CD users can still get all free updates. They can download and use v1.1, which includes the Lionfish. 2.0 is not a free update. It's only free for 90 days as a reward to our online customers. After that, it will be $5.95 for everyone.

The letter I got said nothing about a 90 days limit. This is what it said: "As a reward for your continued loyalty, we are happy to upgrade you to Version 2.0 for FREE! This special promotion is our way of saying thank you for your continued enthusiasm and support."

And if I don't want to pay for $5.95 for these new fishes and new settingsscreen, will the V1.1 get the 3D-background?

When I registered V1.0 I thought all future upgrades would be free, and just the special creature packs would cost to get.

If V1 costed $20, and V2 costs $20, then I don't see any reason why we should pay another $5.95 to upgrade. This just encourages people to wait buying the product until it's more finished, to prevent spending money on the updates.

feldon34 · 03-20-2003, 04:54 PM

The e-mail went out to all registered forum members. I realize that a few of us purchased the boxed version.

Jim Sachs · 03-20-2003, 05:03 PM

That letter doesn't need to mention the 90-day limit. If you got the letter, the time limit does not apply to you. The letter contains your new Key Code right then, for free.

We are sending free 2.0 Key Codes to everyone who purchased the Aquarium on-line and signed up for email announcements. We don't send email to anyone who did not sign up for the mailing list, but we are still giving them 90 days to get their free 2.0 Key. After that, it will be $5.95. It's that simple.

feldon34 · 03-20-2003, 05:10 PM

The confusion is, Yodel is a forum member, but he bought the boxed version.

Jim Sachs · 03-20-2003, 05:12 PM

Morgan - The error message I just got when I hit Submit was:

Fatal error: Call to undefined function: vbtime() in /home/feldon23/public_html/forums/global.php on line 333

But I don't think this is exactly what happened last time.

Jav - No broadband available here in the mountains.

feldon34 · 03-20-2003, 05:21 PM

I hope you didn't lose a message because of the vbtime() thing. I was actually fixing something that time.

There are MANY ways to get broadband where you are.

<strike>Sprint BroadBandDirect is a wafer-thin flat dish that you would point towards LA.</strike> (out of business)

Starband (operated by Echostar) is bidirectional satellite internet.

DirecPC (operated by DirecTV) is also bidirectional satellite internet, or you can use your phone line for the upstream.

You can multiplex 2 phone lines with the v.92 standard.

You could have a PC built to multiplex traffic over 4 or more phone lines.

If you waved a $1,000 bill in front of the phone company, they'd wire you up with fractional T1 for a few hundred a month.

feldon34 · 03-20-2003, 05:30 PM

AND....

I just checked DSLReports.com and checked your availability...

http://www.nextweb.net/
Congratulations!
**************, Lake Arrowhead, CA, ***** is in the NextWeb service area.

If they can get a wafer dish over the trees pointed at LA, you're good to go.

Jim Sachs · 03-20-2003, 05:32 PM

Only the south side of the lake is covered by DSL, not my side.

Can't see LA from here. Can't even get one TV station with an Antenna. No Cel phone coverage.

Not willing to string up any elaborate, expensive setup on a house I will be leaving in two years. ( $HUNDREDS a month -- Holy Mackeral!)

feldon34 · 03-20-2003, 05:40 PM

We're paying $70/mo here.

Yodelking · 03-20-2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
That letter doesn't need to mention the 90-day limit. If you got the letter, the time limit does not apply to you. The letter contains your new Key Code right then, for free.

We are sending free 2.0 Key Codes to everyone who purchased the Aquarium on-line and signed up for email announcements. We don't send email to anyone who did not sign up for the mailing list, but we are still giving them 90 days to get their free 2.0 Key. After that, it will be $5.95. It's that simple.

Ahhh, stupid me...

I read this "It's only free for 90 days as a reward to our online customers. After that, it will be $5.95 for everyone." like I got a 90 days version, and then had to pay if I wanted to keep it instead of going back to V1.1. Sorry for the confusion, I must have been tired yesterday.

Yodelking · 03-20-2003, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by feldon27
The confusion is, Yodel is a forum member, but he bought the boxed version.

No, I bought it online. The confusion is that I misunderstood Jim's letter. It's all clear now.

rmcohen · 03-24-2003, 03:49 PM

While I understand the cost rationale favors on-line, one goes retail in order to achieve advanced coverage. One "makes it up in volume". It's a little disingenous to quote only the cost side of the equation and not the revenue side.

I, for one, would not have even known this product was available if it hadn't been for CompUSA promoting it. In other words the money you got for my purchase wasn't less than you would have gotten on-line, it was money you got that you wouldn't have gotten period.

Also, the reason one gives an upgrade to the next version within a reasonable time-frame is the concept of continued sales. One doesn't want to impact current sales by having people wait around that last month or so for the next version. I would definitely have waited a couple of weeks if I'd known that the next version wasn't grandfathered.

In fact, except for opened software, virtually any purchase these days is grandfathered for 30 days at the broad majority of retailers. And the reason software isn't grandfathered is because of piracy issues, not content issues.

Jim Sachs · 03-24-2003, 07:58 PM

For us, the volume certainly hasn't been in retail sales. Only about 15% of the units sold have been through stores, at great cost for manufacturing, shipping, etc., and we still have to provide customer support for those customers, even though the store and distributer got most of the profit. I believe you will find very few $20 packaged software programs which offer free upgrades.

HOWEVER...STAY TUNED FOR LATE-BREAKING NEWS ON THIS SUBJECT!

Polcamilla · 04-02-2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
I believe you will find very few $20 packaged software programs which offer free upgrades.

I've been watching this forum with some interest because I bought MA1.1 (boxed) at CompUSA about three or so weeks ago and, after installing it, found this forum, with announcements that MA2.0 was going to be released at any moment.

Since then, it's been released to all the online buyers, but the buyers of the boxed copy still aren't able to get it (and yes, I know the technical difficulties you are facing), and once they do, will need to pay to do so.

I understand the concerns about overhead and such, but I'd just like to point out that PLENTY of $20 packaged programs 'grandfather' upgrades for recent purchasers.

About three years ago, I bought a $20 program (which is now up to about $40, I think) called PCStitch. It was a very simple cross-stitch program, but it was the only thing that met my needs. Two days later I was at the exact same store and noticed a new version, complete with new packaging in the spot where the old version had been during my last visit. I went straight home, emailed the company's tech support and explained my situation. They responded that if I'd bought the program after a certain date (which I had) I could download the upgrade and provided me the information to do so. I've done this (never intentionally, mind you) with a couple other programs, but this case was the smallest company and the least expensive program that this happened with.

I chose to buy the CD so I'd have a backup of the program (yes, I know I could burn one myself, but I didn't want to sit down and take the time to do so). This is typical for me, and I'll note that when presented with the choice of downloading a program for $10 and ordering a copy with a CD and documentation for $20, I'll usually chose the latter. Had I known that MA2 was so close to release (or, indeed, known about MA2 at all) I would absolutely have waited the extra week or two to buy it. And if it had been available by download the next week for $20 and in stores a month later for $30, I probably would've waited until I could get it in the store.

So I guess I'm saying that, while I love the program and am really glad I bought it, I *do* still feel a bit cheated by the confusing upgrade policy here and by the fact that no attempt is being made to grandfather in the most recent purchasers (and by this I mean those who bought it within 1-2 months of release of the new version) of the outdated version, in whatever form they had the misfortune of purchasing.

Jim Sachs · 04-02-2003, 09:21 PM

The CD buyers ARE getting the upgrade to 2.0 for free, as soon as the script to enable this is installed on the website (any hour now). Offer good for the next 90 days.

When I said that it's rare to find a $20 program that offers free upgrades, I was talking about free lifetime upgrades, as most of my fans seem to expect.

Polcamilla · 04-03-2003, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
When I said that it's rare to find a $20 program that offers free upgrades, I was talking about free lifetime upgrades, as most of my fans seem to expect.

OOOOOOOH! Okay. Thanks.

GCL · 04-05-2003, 11:30 AM

Great !!!
Like to see a vendor come up to the plate and hit a homerun for the home crowd !

As stated before, I was looking in the short term for a free update on a recent CD retail purchase Vs online.
That is, I did not expect Jim to offer a "lifetime" upgrade path for users. Very few shareware vendors follow that path for obvious reasons.
Of course, when updates are listed as "free", they should be available for both versions (CD or online).
However, if there are updates that require a fee, it should apply to both CD and online users.
Just waiting for web site to accept CD buyers and receive update.
Thanks Jim and SereneScreen.

Franklin J. Flocks · 04-07-2003, 01:28 PM

Today is the last day of the first week of April - so will
the buyers of the retail version get their keycode today? (Jim's
post of 4-2-03, above) said it would be "any hour" and the
Severescreen web site says it would be available the during
the first week of April.

thorn · 04-09-2003, 02:47 PM

any news on when the retail upgrade will be available

03-20-2003, 04:13 PM	#41
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Jim, You need to take the plunge and get some kind of broadband access. As a convert of only one week I am already spoiled and just can't believe how I ever did anything on dialup. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

03-20-2003, 04:26 PM	#42
Yodelking yodeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Staffanstorp, Sweden Posts: 294	Originally posted by Jim Sachs The CD users can still get all free updates. They can download and use v1.1, which includes the Lionfish. 2.0 is not a free update. It's only free for 90 days as a reward to our online customers. After that, it will be $5.95 for everyone. The letter I got said nothing about a 90 days limit. This is what it said: "As a reward for your continued loyalty, we are happy to upgrade you to Version 2.0 for FREE! This special promotion is our way of saying thank you for your continued enthusiasm and support." And if I don't want to pay for $5.95 for these new fishes and new settingsscreen, will the V1.1 get the 3D-background? When I registered V1.0 I thought all future upgrades would be free, and just the special creature packs would cost to get. If V1 costed $20, and V2 costs $20, then I don't see any reason why we should pay another $5.95 to upgrade. This just encourages people to wait buying the product until it's more finished, to prevent spending money on the updates. Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!

03-20-2003, 04:54 PM	#43
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	The e-mail went out to all registered forum members. I realize that a few of us purchased the boxed version. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 05:03 PM	#44
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	That letter doesn't need to mention the 90-day limit. If you got the letter, the time limit does not apply to you. The letter contains your new Key Code right then, for free. We are sending free 2.0 Key Codes to everyone who purchased the Aquarium on-line and signed up for email announcements. We don't send email to anyone who did not sign up for the mailing list, but we are still giving them 90 days to get their free 2.0 Key. After that, it will be $5.95. It's that simple. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-20-2003, 05:10 PM	#45
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	The confusion is, Yodel is a forum member, but he bought the boxed version. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 05:12 PM	#46
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Morgan - The error message I just got when I hit Submit was: Fatal error: Call to undefined function: vbtime() in /home/feldon23/public_html/forums/global.php on line 333 But I don't think this is exactly what happened last time. Jav - No broadband available here in the mountains. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-20-2003, 05:21 PM	#47
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	I hope you didn't lose a message because of the vbtime() thing. I was actually fixing something that time. There are MANY ways to get broadband where you are. <strike>Sprint BroadBandDirect is a wafer-thin flat dish that you would point towards LA.</strike> (out of business) Starband (operated by Echostar) is bidirectional satellite internet. DirecPC (operated by DirecTV) is also bidirectional satellite internet, or you can use your phone line for the upstream. You can multiplex 2 phone lines with the v.92 standard. You could have a PC built to multiplex traffic over 4 or more phone lines. If you waved a $1,000 bill in front of the phone company, they'd wire you up with fractional T1 for a few hundred a month. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 05:30 PM	#48
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	AND.... I just checked DSLReports.com and checked your availability... http://www.nextweb.net/ Congratulations! ************, Lake Arrowhead, CA, *** is in the NextWeb service area. If they can get a wafer dish over the trees pointed at LA, you're good to go. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 05:32 PM	#49
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Only the south side of the lake is covered by DSL, not my side. Can't see LA from here. Can't even get one TV station with an Antenna. No Cel phone coverage. Not willing to string up any elaborate, expensive setup on a house I will be leaving in two years. ( $HUNDREDS a month -- Holy Mackeral!) Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-20-2003, 05:40 PM	#50
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	We're paying $70/mo here. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 11:56 PM	#51
Yodelking yodeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Staffanstorp, Sweden Posts: 294	Originally posted by Jim Sachs That letter doesn't need to mention the 90-day limit. If you got the letter, the time limit does not apply to you. The letter contains your new Key Code right then, for free. We are sending free 2.0 Key Codes to everyone who purchased the Aquarium on-line and signed up for email announcements. We don't send email to anyone who did not sign up for the mailing list, but we are still giving them 90 days to get their free 2.0 Key. After that, it will be $5.95. It's that simple. Ahhh, stupid me... I read this "It's only free for 90 days as a reward to our online customers. After that, it will be $5.95 for everyone." like I got a 90 days version, and then had to pay if I wanted to keep it instead of going back to V1.1. Sorry for the confusion, I must have been tired yesterday. Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!

03-20-2003, 11:58 PM	#52
Yodelking yodeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Staffanstorp, Sweden Posts: 294	Originally posted by feldon27 The confusion is, Yodel is a forum member, but he bought the boxed version. No, I bought it online. The confusion is that I misunderstood Jim's letter. It's all clear now. Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!

03-24-2003, 03:49 PM	#53
rmcohen Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 3	While I understand the cost rationale favors on-line, one goes retail in order to achieve advanced coverage. One "makes it up in volume". It's a little disingenous to quote only the cost side of the equation and not the revenue side. I, for one, would not have even known this product was available if it hadn't been for CompUSA promoting it. In other words the money you got for my purchase wasn't less than you would have gotten on-line, it was money you got that you wouldn't have gotten period. Also, the reason one gives an upgrade to the next version within a reasonable time-frame is the concept of continued sales. One doesn't want to impact current sales by having people wait around that last month or so for the next version. I would definitely have waited a couple of weeks if I'd known that the next version wasn't grandfathered. In fact, except for opened software, virtually any purchase these days is grandfathered for 30 days at the broad majority of retailers. And the reason software isn't grandfathered is because of piracy issues, not content issues.

03-24-2003, 07:58 PM	#54
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	For us, the volume certainly hasn't been in retail sales. Only about 15% of the units sold have been through stores, at great cost for manufacturing, shipping, etc., and we still have to provide customer support for those customers, even though the store and distributer got most of the profit. I believe you will find very few $20 packaged software programs which offer free upgrades. HOWEVER...STAY TUNED FOR LATE-BREAKING NEWS ON THIS SUBJECT! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-02-2003, 06:57 PM	#55
Polcamilla Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 31	Originally posted by Jim Sachs I believe you will find very few $20 packaged software programs which offer free upgrades. I've been watching this forum with some interest because I bought MA1.1 (boxed) at CompUSA about three or so weeks ago and, after installing it, found this forum, with announcements that MA2.0 was going to be released at any moment. Since then, it's been released to all the online buyers, but the buyers of the boxed copy still aren't able to get it (and yes, I know the technical difficulties you are facing), and once they do, will need to pay to do so. I understand the concerns about overhead and such, but I'd just like to point out that PLENTY of $20 packaged programs 'grandfather' upgrades for recent purchasers. About three years ago, I bought a $20 program (which is now up to about $40, I think) called PCStitch. It was a very simple cross-stitch program, but it was the only thing that met my needs. Two days later I was at the exact same store and noticed a new version, complete with new packaging in the spot where the old version had been during my last visit. I went straight home, emailed the company's tech support and explained my situation. They responded that if I'd bought the program after a certain date (which I had) I could download the upgrade and provided me the information to do so. I've done this (never intentionally, mind you) with a couple other programs, but this case was the smallest company and the least expensive program that this happened with. I chose to buy the CD so I'd have a backup of the program (yes, I know I could burn one myself, but I didn't want to sit down and take the time to do so). This is typical for me, and I'll note that when presented with the choice of downloading a program for $10 and ordering a copy with a CD and documentation for $20, I'll usually chose the latter. Had I known that MA2 was so close to release (or, indeed, known about MA2 at all) I would absolutely have waited the extra week or two to buy it. And if it had been available by download the next week for $20 and in stores a month later for $30, I probably would've waited until I could get it in the store. So I guess I'm saying that, while I love the program and am really glad I bought it, I do still feel a bit cheated by the confusing upgrade policy here and by the fact that no attempt is being made to grandfather in the most recent purchasers (and by this I mean those who bought it within 1-2 months of release of the new version) of the outdated version, in whatever form they had the misfortune of purchasing.

04-02-2003, 09:21 PM	#56
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	The CD buyers *ARE* getting the upgrade to 2.0 for free, as soon as the script to enable this is installed on the website (any hour now). Offer good for the next 90 days. When I said that it's rare to find a $20 program that offers free upgrades, I was talking about free lifetime upgrades, as most of my fans seem to expect. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium Last edited by feldon34; 04-03-2003 at 02:41 AM.

04-03-2003, 05:00 PM	#57
Polcamilla Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 31	Originally posted by Jim Sachs When I said that it's rare to find a $20 program that offers free upgrades, I was talking about free lifetime upgrades, as most of my fans seem to expect. OOOOOOOH! Okay. Thanks.

04-05-2003, 11:30 AM	#58
GCL Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	Great !!! Like to see a vendor come up to the plate and hit a homerun for the home crowd ! As stated before, I was looking in the short term for a free update on a recent CD retail purchase Vs online. That is, I did not expect Jim to offer a "lifetime" upgrade path for users. Very few shareware vendors follow that path for obvious reasons. Of course, when updates are listed as "free", they should be available for both versions (CD or online). However, if there are updates that require a fee, it should apply to both CD and online users. Just waiting for web site to accept CD buyers and receive update. Thanks Jim and SereneScreen.

04-07-2003, 01:28 PM	#59
Franklin J. Flocks Registered Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 19	Today is the last day of the first week of April - so will the buyers of the retail version get their keycode today? (Jim's post of 4-2-03, above) said it would be "any hour" and the Severescreen web site says it would be available the during the first week of April.

04-09-2003, 02:47 PM	#60
thorn Registered Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2	any news on when the retail upgrade will be available