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Old 04-14-2002, 09:56 PM   #221
CephaloP
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whew....ok

First of all, Tiny, I'm in Michigan, though I might be getting back to Hawaii this year. I sounded British to myself, putting "shite" and "bugger" in the same post. Bad habits from my old Welsh roommate

The one thing that's clear is that I only have a PCI slot and I bought an AGP card. I'm thinking this accounts for all the problems, including the "too tall card" thing. Actually, Tiny, I think you did understand what I was talking about, and with the gold connector stuff down in the slot the card would be the right height. Of course, I couldn't put it in and find out cuz I got the wrong card.

I don't think I explained this part that well. Feldon, I wasn't trying to put the card in through the back of the case instead of opening it up. I was referring to the part of the card that sticks out the back of the case when it's installed, the steel part with the outlet that the monitor plugs into. That's what wouldn't fit in the "door", again probably because I couldn't put the card in the slot. And no, I didn't try to jam it in there, you'll be proud to note.

Also Tiny, I couldn't take the old graphics card out to compare cuz' it's one of those "integrated" things.

Flipper, thanks, I really appreciate the offer. To tell the truth though the fps and resolution your describing with that card is exactly what I'm getting now, which goes to show that I don't REALLY need to upgrade in the first place and that I'm just being an ungrateful git (that one was for you, Tiny). Which is also why I don't want to bother getting a new card AND a new motherboard and/or case.

So- does anyone have a favorite PCI card that they'd recommend? Gateway did offer to connect me to their sales department, Jav, while I was talking to 'em, but I figured the tossers (see what you got started, Tiny?), realizing I knew zilch about this, would just tell me whatever they needed to to sell me their most expensive item.

Thanks again for all your help. I'm one of those guys that probably comes off as Cro-Magnon when you're trying to explain this stuff to them. But if you post that to my face I'll thump you with my club.

Last edited by CephaloP; 04-14-2002 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 04-15-2002, 05:42 AM   #222
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CephaloP,

Now that we know what you need, what you need to do is go back to http://www.pricewatch.com and click once on the video card link so that the cards at the bottom of the page change to video cards, then type "PCI" in the search slot. This will bring up 22 pages of PCI video cards that are available that you can look through.

There are usually several different versions that you will find availalble. Retail Box is the full version that should contain instructions and any extras that normally come with the card, like software and so on. White box versions are ones that contain the card only, no instruction or extras. Those are usually cheaper, but lack all the frills and bells and whistles, and sometimes even are without warranties.

This time when you see one that you like, let us know which one it is first before you order it, and we can help you look it over.

Last edited by Jav400; 04-15-2002 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 04-22-2002, 05:42 PM   #223
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hi all. this questions for some techie friends of mine. they swear up and down that you cannot get a fps above your refresh rate setting on xp. they even have a white paper to prove it

theyve turned vsynce off but say it doesnt make a difference. they both have killer machines so im sure its not a horse power issue.

so, how do you do it? the paper talked about optimal rate. do you set your own refresh rate to get the higher fps rates? or are you only getting these high fps rates in windowed mode?
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Old 04-23-2002, 03:58 PM   #224
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Wow... I havn't bothered to check my frame rates lately with XP. But I do know I was able to disable vsync with XP. But lately I have changes XP drivers for my Voodoo 5, and now the V-sync options are gone!

I'll be looking for the older version of the driver again to follow up on this. I KNOW for a fact, I was able to turn it off. But that was also when I had XP installed OVER 98se during my XP installation eXPeriment.
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Old 05-01-2002, 07:25 AM   #225
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Ok all, what do you think about a "INNOVISION INNO3D TNT2 M64 32MB PCI W/FAN" ?
Is this any different/better than "nVIDIA Chipset 32MB PCI TNT-2 M64 Video Card Includes: drive, manual, 1year warranty" other than having a fan?

Also, are these 32MB cards going to give me a BIG boost over what my 4MB integrated Gateway doodad is doing? If I'm going to upgrade, I want to REALLY see a big difference. And it worries me that these cost a little less than that Geforce2 did. Does that mean they aren't as effective?
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Old 05-01-2002, 09:10 AM   #226
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CephaloP,

From what you have shown us here, it looks like the same card, just manufactured by a different company. It would show you an improvement over the 4MB card that you have now, but, in my opinion and not knowing how much money you are comfortable spending, you would be better off to step up to something like a GF2 MX400 with 64MB. The TNT2 card is a fairly old format. I had one of those cards in my system when I first got it, it was the fastest available at the time. That is the card I have installed in my office system, and at 1280x1024 resoultion I get about 48-55fps on the aquarium. On my home system I installed a GF2 Ultra, which is alot more $$$ but I get about 130fps @ 1600x1200 with the GF2 Ultra. I think the GF2 MX 400 is the card that Morgan runs, maybe he can give some input as to what you could expect from it.
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Old 05-01-2002, 09:37 AM   #227
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If you can get that Innovision TnT Riva 2 for $30, get it. Otherwise, get a GeForce 2 MX 400 PCI for ~$55.

Either way, it will run the Aquarium and games reasonably well at 1024x768. Of course the GeForce 2 is faster.
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Old 05-01-2002, 10:34 AM   #228
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Also, note that 32 MB or 64 MB of RAM makes no difference on any version of the GeForce2MX cards (GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX200 or GeForce MX400).

/Tiny Memory Bandwidth
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 05-01-2002, 01:08 PM   #229
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Oh, didn't realize there was a GeForce for PCI too.

Just out of curiosity, why does 32 or 64MB not matter? If amount of memory doesn't affect performance, why offer both?
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Old 05-01-2002, 01:56 PM   #230
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If you check back a couple of pages in this thread you'll find a reply of mine with the subject "Possible solution" or something like that. It contains links to a manufacturer of PCI GeForce cards.

On the 32/64 issue – it *can* matter, just not for me and (most likely) you. Also for marketing purposes. Tack on som extra RAM and sell it at a higher price 'coz more has to be better, right? . The GF2 Mx is a crippled GeForce2 GTS (the regular GeForce2) and it's done in such a way that the amount of memory isn't the bottleneck. Another marketing trick was tried by Creative who offered a GeForce2 MX card with faster "DDR SDRAM" (instead of regular SDRAM). This resulted in identical benchmarks as memory bandwidth isn't the issue with MX cards. The original GeForce (GeForce256) benefitted greatly from the upgrade to DDR and Creative hoped consumers would assume the same thing would apply to the MX cards.

/Calle
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:21 PM   #231
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Speaking of marketing tricks... watch out for the GeForce 4 MX card. It's not a step up from a GeForce 3 as onw would expect. It's somewhere between a Geforce2 and 3.

A friend of mine thought he got a screaming deal on a GF4. He found out its not anywhere near the GF3 card.

But the GeForce4 TI series card! WOW! I'm trying to get one now. That card is something else!

Just remember, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! LOL
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Old 05-03-2002, 12:55 AM   #232
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Shinsa, wait a couple of weeks until the GeForce4 Ti4200 comes out and go for the 64 MB version (as it has faster memory than the 128 MB version) . It might not be as fast as 4200 & 4600 but close enough. At $179 (64 MB) and $199 (128 MB) suggested retail, it's an absolute bargain! (The MX460 costs about the same and is seriously slower)

/Tiny Pricing
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 05-03-2002, 08:57 AM   #233
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Quite content with my GeForce 2 MX 400.
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Old 05-11-2002, 07:42 AM   #234
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Cool! This must be a contestant for the Most-Off-Topic-This-Year award. Do you guys think it was vBullentin that put this here by mistake?

/TT
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 05-16-2002, 09:23 PM   #235
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Unhappy

Hey all, remember that "card being too tall for the case" thing? Well I got the PCI card and it STILL wouldn't fit in the slot. So I took it to a computer store and the guy said that Gateway used a nonstandard case and board configuration to make sure I'd only use their products. If I want to upgrade, it's either their stuff or completely overhaul my system, which I will probably end up doing, just to show them. It's a matter of principle now.

I invite you to join me in this rebellion, if you haven't already. For anyone who has been caught in the same trap as me, sure, it might be easier (and cheaper) to do it their way and keep buying Gateway products. But lying in your beds, many years from now, how many of you would give all the days, from this day to that, to come back here and tell the Engli..er, Gateway, "You may sabotage our motherboards, but you'll never take...OUR FREEDOM!!!"
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Old 05-16-2002, 11:11 PM   #236
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I have never owned a name brand PC. It's always been a custom-built box one way or the other since 1995.
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:46 AM   #237
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Old 06-11-2002, 06:57 AM   #238
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I FINALLY did it, I re-did my comp. New case, board, processor, lots o' stuff. So now I can use my nvidia geforce2 MX200, and it's running the Aquarium pretty smooth in any resolution my monitor can manage. Still though, if anyone could post the link to the best driver for that, I'd be much obliged.

Also, a question: Is the driver best for the Aquarium generally going to be the best for other programs/games? I have a game that's still getting slowed down, even on low res.
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Old 06-11-2002, 10:24 AM   #239
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...wish you'd gotten the MX400. It makes a drastic difference.

I got rid of my MX200 when I realized it would only run the Aquarium at 45fps at 1024x768, and I had to dial down Wolfenstein to 800x600 to get a reasonable speed.

The MX400 is only $6 more. Should be about $58.
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Old 06-12-2002, 09:06 PM   #240
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A little while back (less than 20 missives ago), someone thought that with XP you can not get around vsync. Thats not true. I just updated my Voodoo drivers and I now can toggle vsync on and off. And it works too!
Bob

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