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Old 12-10-2008, 03:06 PM   #41
MadBob
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From the perspective of someone who has no intaraction with the forum (my dad) and so sees it as a new user would.

I bought it for him and explained (a couple of weeks ago) what was new and had been completed and what was still to do when compared to v2.6 (IE. 3D background and new fish / clock etc) and he said he won't bother downloading it until all the new stuff is completed.

He previously has seen the old versions and doesn't see the 3D background as much of a difference (he slows it right down same as me) so he will really only notice the new fish models.

You need to be very careful when releasing this, as it is now not a singular good product in a bland market, there have been many copies of your aquarium. It has been 6 years since first hearing about the 3D background, I would be interested to know how much of that time was really developing this and programming it? and how long before the basic product is finished (new fish models / behaviour). because I don't think that releasing it unfinished will get many people buying it but neither will waiting six more years.

Not sure how much of this is useful feedback but I am buying it on expectation of your usual quality and loyalty to the product, my dad as a new user isn't.
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Old 12-10-2008, 03:24 PM   #42
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Originally posted by rps:
and ask those of you who like windowed mode if this would work for you:  
I think that any or all of those options would be fine.

I have said that I would accept an always on title bar just to avoid the blink/jump.

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Old 12-10-2008, 04:21 PM   #43
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and I think an always-on title bar would take something away from running the Aquarium in a window.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:24 PM   #44
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Originally posted by feldon32:
and I think an always-on title bar would take something away from running the Aquarium in a window.  
There's probably no question about that.

Let's assume (for the sake of argument - corrections invited) that it would take Jim 5 working days to "get this right" without the title bar.

Would it be worth holding up the product rollout that long?

[OK, pick your own assumption, and say how many days delay it would be worth]
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:38 PM   #45
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I'm working on the titlebar, and have put in a menu item for it. I'm looking into how to move the window around (thanks for the input, RPS). You can say what you want about Windows, but it's great to have such features ready-made from a programming standpoint. Just specify that a window will have a titlebar when it is created, and it automatically has a titlebar with all the usual properties. No programming required.

I'll do as much as I can before the credit cards expire, but unless the iPhone version of MA2 is done in the next week, we'll have to release something. It will still be called a Beta, but with a banner on the SereneScreen website.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:08 PM   #46
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I'm going to have to think a bit about how to address this as far as the forum is concerned. I'll probably archive all the "solved" issues into a folder and create some more sticky topics.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:32 PM   #47
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Originally posted by feldon32:
and I think an always-on title bar would take something away from running the Aquarium in a window.  
Probably; which is why there's a checkbox to turn it off, and then it's *always* off. But it has to default to "on"; the novice user, the first time they see the aquarium in a window, has to have a title bar in order to close the program, drag the window, or minimize/maximize it, or they'll be confused. They're less likely to be confused by the absence of the title bar if they've explicitly turned it off in the options menu.

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:07 PM   #48
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I'll do as much as I can before the credit cards expire, but unless the iPhone version of MA2 is done in the next week, we'll have to release something. It will still be called a Beta, but with a banner on the SereneScreen website.  
OK, sorry I misinterpreted the question. The first note in the thread asked:

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
Prolific (and I) are anxious to get a version out to the public as 3.0. Are there still Beta issues that the average user just wouldn't be able to handle?  
So, the question was really - We will publicly release the Beta for sale in a week - what must be fixed before that is done?

I would say:

1. Reset to default settings (CTRL-R) must be implemented or removed from the menu.

2. Clock and calendar must be added.

3. There must be a thorough description of what's there, what's not, and what's planned.

I base the above on what I think is necessary, to preclude a constant flood of questions and/or complaints in the forum and elsewhere. As witness the frequent repetition of the same set of questions already.
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:51 PM   #49
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Originally posted by feldon32:
and I think an always-on title bar would take something away from running the Aquarium in a window.  
You're right. The always on title bar would take "something" away from running the Aquarium in a window. But, to me at least, the blink/jump effect takes away "a lot" from running the Aquarium in a window.

The always on title bar was not my first choice, but I think it's a lot better than the current situation.

I see Jim has posted that he's working on a title bar fix. I have great hopes that what ever solution he comes up with will satisfy most of us.

Bob
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:52 PM   #50
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There is pressure to call it 3.0, with the updates being 3.1, etc., but I think the best plan is to remain with the Beta description until most of the features you guys have mentioned are in.
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:57 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
I'm working on the titlebar  
Great news, Jim. Looking forward to testing this fix.


I'll do as much as I can before the credit cards expire
Do what you need to do regarding the release. If you starve to death before finishing MA3 we'll all lose.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:55 PM   #52
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Originally posted by ROBinLA:
I feel that releasing 3.0 with the same fish as the 2.x feels like half a new product.  
I concur. And at least add clock/cal to crystal.
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:20 PM   #53
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Ver 3.0

Jim;
The "i" beta has been working very well for me. I think a lot of people know what you want to accomplish and don't want it to be "done" till all the bells and whistles are ready. IMHO I think it's a go if you think it is. I know you will continue to develope it, and as you said we all will have more to look forward to. It's a beautiful piece of work and can only get better.
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:18 AM   #54
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Release it now; if a dummy like me can contend with the few problems then the average user can too.
Why wait, Microsoft has updates allmost every week, so why no MA
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:40 AM   #55
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Originally posted by Jav400:
I doubt that most of you realize what you are asking for. If Jim did all that before release it wouldn't get released until 2010. He needs to pay his bills and eat too.

I think the main question is - is it stable enough, and working well on most everyone's system's?  
The issue at hand (for consumers) is not Jim's financial status or amount of endless hard hard hours of work he's spent on the product... though we all like him and wish him the best. The issue at hand is... IS the product ready?

The way I see it, the only major thing that's been changes is the clarity of the reef and 3d objects. Although the resolution is SO much better.... that's the only thing most will see.

When I first bought 2.6, I was shocked at the fish movements because I had also just purchased Dream Aquarium.


Again, I'm NOT trying to be insensitive to Jim's POV.... I'm just looking at the product from a general consumer's POV.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:06 AM   #56
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Side note... in the dream aquarium forum, there's a thread on "Marine Aquarium or Dream Aquarium".... ... might want to look at it if you haven't... sigh
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:32 AM   #57
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Originally posted by Dale:
. . .
3. There must be a thorough description of what's there, what's not, and what's planned.  
Very good.
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

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I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:55 AM   #58
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Originally posted by StuDisney:
Why wait, Microsoft has updates allmost every week, so why no MA  
Excellent point.

However, there is a major difference:

Microsoft (if allowed by the user) will automatically download and install updates when they are available.

Yeah, I know it isn't simple. But we're talking here about a release that advertises pre-planned MAJOR feature additions. Having automatic updates would go a long way toward making that more palatable.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:05 AM   #59
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I doubt Jim would EVER make anything automatic as far as updates goes. I would guess Prolific doesn't want to respond to 432 thousand questions about why it starts its own access.

I would hope to have a manual update button where the user at their discretion could click and it would compare version numbers and let the user know there is an update available and let them confirm that they want to get it. That way no one worries about unknown traffic and what it's doing.

That to me would seem to be a compromise that would satisfy everyone and still make it easier for the user to check for updates.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:25 AM   #60
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There are all sorts of mechanisms, and it's clearly an implementation choice for Jim and probably others.

The current mechanism is "No notification and no button and nothing automatic".

That's arguably OK if only "bug fixes" are planned.

Having planned-and-announced major feature additions is a different situation.

I'm just pointing out that it will be one of several "annoyances" for those who "buy the Beta".

You folks clearly get to balance your driving need to release incomplete software, with the resulting level of annoyances to "support" and annoyances to purchasers and software reviews by magazines and bloggers.

Footnote: check the MA2 discussions for lots of talk about this, as well as "How do I figure out, using the secret incantations, EXACTLY what sub-version of MA that I have, and how do I find out EXACTLY whether there is some new sub-version available." [Sub-version being, for instance, one of the several different distributed images of "2.5" and "2.6", that you can find out if you know to click on "Version 2.6" in the "About" section, and get a display that tells you that you really have Q224.2.6.475 -- now, is that the latest MA2.6 release? Beats me!]
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