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Old 12-06-2008, 04:59 PM   #1
G600
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Problem with antialiasing

I discovered a problem which probably has always been there.
When I apply AA settings of 4X and higher with monitor settings of 1024x768x32 and display settings at Automatic, MA3(Beta7i) crashes when ending it(Mouse move). As there is no response to any keyboard action(Ctrl+Alt+Delete doesn't work either) I have to turn the computer off and on again. Changing the display settings from Automatic to 1024x768x32 doesn't solve the problem. I tried other resolutions and as long as the display settings correspond with the monitor settings, same problem. But with monitor settings of 800x600x32 and display of MA3 at 1024x768x32 I can stop the SS at any AA settings without crashing.
I don't know if the problem occurs with earlier versions of MA3 as I didn't apply the higher AA settings then.
What I do know is that the above described problem also goes for MA2.6 and GA, but not with other screensavers I tested.

Does anyone else have this problem or does anyone know what might cause it?


Intel Celeron 1.4GHz, 512MB Memory, GeForce Ti 4200 with AGP8X(64MB), Windows XP
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #2
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I doubt this can be considered an AA problem as such. Though I have no doubt that the introduction of high settings of AA may well have caused this effect to happen, with that particular card! - I think that the GeForce 4 card itself, is more likely to be the culprit here. - We need someone with more knowledge of all the various cards, (Tiny?), but I think that the series 4 cards are getting a little long in the tooth by now!

I have been using 4x AA with my last three cards (Fx5200, 6800GS/XT, and 7900GS), and have not experienced any crashing associated with monitor settings whilst using AA on any version of MA3.

The only problem that AA causes for me with all the MA3 versions, is the one pixel line down the left-hand side of each screen, and along the top of the screen. This line problem was covered in some detail during Alpha testing. - And for a short time I was able to avoid it with the card and drivers I was using at that time.
Whilst I accept that the line can be avoided by setting AA to 'Off', in all the years that I have been using antialiasing, this (MA3) and MA2.6, are the only programs I have used that display the fault. - It does not affect GA, Sharks, or DA for example. (Or any other program as far as I know). - So the problem appears to be linked only with MA.

This is a screen shot of Beta7g, at the point where the two screens meet. (With AA set at 4x)....
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File Type: jpg MA3_onepixel_crop3.jpg (571.8 KB, 30 views)
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:29 PM   #3
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I've thought about upgrading to a better video card.(a.s.a. I can afford it)
As the GeForce 4200 is in the list of cards with which MA3 was tested, I thought it might suffice. I get acceptable frame rates with 4X AA(45-60fps), but I know that MA3 being in progress(bringing background to life and higher resolution fish models) will probably result in a decrease in frame rates so I realy have to upgrade in the near future.

As for the one pixel line, I can also see it with AA on, but only on the left(single monitor) in MA3 and not in MA2.6.

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Old 12-08-2008, 09:35 AM   #4
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Just avoid any of the GeForce 5xxx series. They were some of the worst bang-for-the-buck cards. Also be aware that 6200 LE, and other LE cards steal system memory to do their graphics. If you can get a card that uses DDR3 memory all the better.

You might check out Tom's Hardware's Best Video Cards for the Money, recently updated for December 2008. Note that it now exclusively covers PCI Express cards. If you need AGP, you'll have to go back about a year on his charts when he still covered AGP. Of the AGPs, the GeForce 6800 XT is by far one of the best. I have one, and still love it. Although it doesn't get to flex its EQ2 muscle like it used to, as the CPU is really too slow for it.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:14 AM   #5
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Getting a AGP card these days is not really a good affair. A decent AGP card costs like a several times better PCI-E card.

If you really need to stay with AGP I'd consider the Radeon 3850. It's €121 at komplett.nl (the cooling on the €111 one isn't as good) which would get you a much better PCI-E card. Saving €44 and getting a 3650 instead at €77 is an ok deal if you want to save a bit, but *don't* get the FX5500 they got. It plain sucks.
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:01 AM   #6
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If like me you are limited to using AGP cards, then I would go for the GeForce 6800GS/XT. (If you can still find one!). I only changed to a 7900GS recently because I got one for a very good price!

The 7900 is faster, but has caused me some driver problems, which I have now resolved by using nHancer. - But I was very pleased with the 6800 with 94.24 drivers. With the 6800, and by setting the 'Transparency antialiasing' for 'Supersampling', in place of 'Off'. - I was also able to get rid of that one-pixel-line!

The good news....
After further experimentation with nHancer, I have now been able to get rid of the one-pixel-line with the drivers for the 7900GS ! ...
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:23 AM   #7
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That's good news, Cliff!
Jim Sachs
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:25 PM   #8
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Yeah, I forgot the 7900GS since it wasn't available at komplett.nl. One of those should be somewhere between equal to and half as fast as the 3850 depending on what game/app you're running. The cost difference should be marginal at best though.

Glad you managed to tweak that bug out. Is that anything Jim could incorporate?
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 12-09-2008, 04:43 PM   #9
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I got my 7900GS for well under half the price of that Radeon 3850. (£39.29 + VAT = £45.18, ie about 51.6 Euro). - I considered it an opportunity I had to take. - It's currently out of stock, and listed now at slightly more than I payed back in September....
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Compo...HNQZXJQYWdlPSY=

.... If you can find them, there now seem to be some bargains available in AGP cards. - In addition to having to be AGP, it also had to be dual DVI, which the 7900GS is! - So I just had to have it!
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:23 PM   #10
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Having read some negative comments on ATI cards on this forum(I don't remember where), I think I'd best stay with GeForce.
I've been searching on the web at www.tweakers.net and the best card I can find is the GeForce 7600 GT 256MB DDR3 (AGP, 2x DVI) at €94.24.
But I wonder if my CPU of 1.4GHz isn't too slow for this card or another one of the GeForce 7 series.

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Old 12-09-2008, 06:22 PM   #11
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Your CPU will bottleneck all of these cards, but there will be a noticeable speed increase nevertheless.

As for the drivers, I don't believe AMD's (who bough ATi) drivers are any worse than nVidia's. There have been issues with Vista, but I'm guessing you're not running Vista on your machine. Jav400 and Feldon32 prefer nVidia though. (I have nVidia cards in my machine so you don't have to think I'm rooting for "my" team either ).

Paying €100 for that card seems a little short-term to me when you can get a new computer for less than €400.
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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