Fixed Bug 3.0 Beta 6 Beta 5 Major Issues - Page 2

Jim Sachs · 11-12-2008, 06:06 PM

I'm still open to suggestions about the titlebar. The normal state is for a window to have a titlebar, which allows you to drag it, exit the program, etc. The Alpha testers wanted to just see the Aquarium window with no titlebar, but it still needs those other functions. So I came up with the compromise of just showing the titlebar when the mouse is over the window. This was REALLY hard, so I hate to throw it away. On some systems (Vista), the whole scene jumps when the bar appears or disappears, which is annoying.

feldon34 · 11-12-2008, 06:20 PM

Can you wait 2 seconds before showing the titlebar?

As for the window jumping, I wonder if there is a parameter that you can read to calculate the thickness of the window and the height of the titlebar and use that in your figuring.

Jim Sachs · 11-12-2008, 06:30 PM

I'm already doing that, but each opearating system is different.

Bob · 11-13-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I'm still open to suggestions about the titlebar.

Another option in settings? Always show, never show, auto show?

I can appreciate how hard it is for you to throw away such a difficult piece of programing to get Windows to do something it is not designed to do. And I do really like running it without the title bar. But, the jumping window does disturb the illusion of the Aquarium.

While I would rather run the Aquarium without the title bar I would rather run it with the title bar than have the window jump every time I move the cursor over it.

Thanks,
Bob

Socrates · 11-13-2008, 01:11 AM

My major issue in window mode is the whole disapearing title bar that makes the aquarium jump up and down when the mouse passes by. It's incredibaly annoying.

jleslie · 11-13-2008, 07:36 AM

Perhaps just show the title bar when the screen-saver has focus and the Alt key is pressed?
John

clifdene · 11-13-2008, 09:30 AM

I doubt that the jumping has anything to do with the Beta. It does not happen on my PC.

AMD Athlon 64, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) 3500+, 2048 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM), Radeon X600, XPHome SP3. DirectX 9.0c

Jav400 · 11-13-2008, 09:38 AM

Soc,

The first iteration was different, the window did actually "move" or jump when the title bar disappeared. It actually moved up to where the top of the bar was before. Jim worked on it and got the bar to disappear and the window stays in the same place.

At least thats the way it works on mine and the rest. What do you mean the window "jumps"?

Bob · 11-13-2008, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by clifdene:

XPHome SP3

That may be the difference. Jim did say that the problem happens mostly on Vista.

Bob

Bob · 11-13-2008, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Jav400:

What do you mean the window "jumps"?

Maybe "blinks" is a better description,

Bob

feldon34 · 11-13-2008, 11:07 AM

It's because title bars are much bigger on Vista. That's why I was asking if there was some way for Jim to read the thickness of the title bar. Otherwise he'd have to put special case for Vista, and of course you can customize how Vista looks. It'd really be much better if he could calculate the total height of the title bar with some kind of system query.

As for hiding/showing, I still believe waiting 2 seconds before showing it is the best deal. You should not have to change a setting or hold down any special keys to get to the title bar. That would be bad user interface design.

Jim Sachs · 11-13-2008, 11:32 AM

When the titlebar appears on my Vista machine, the OS first resizes the window to include the size of the titlebar, then paints in the titlebar itself, then resizes the Aquarium picture just under the titlebar. All this only takes about a quarter-second. I have not been able to stop it from doing this, no matter what I try.

patscarr · 11-13-2008, 08:16 PM

You might just have to throw it away and go with a permanent title bar, Jim.

Jim Sachs · 11-13-2008, 08:26 PM

I might.

Jav400 · 11-13-2008, 11:27 PM

I know this gets repetitive, and with everything requested it might be more options than you want to have shown. But would it be possible to have some kind of option/checkbox for the title bar instead of just throwing it out?

feldon34 · 11-14-2008, 10:07 AM

It comes down to who is bothered by the flicker/jump when the title bar appears?

cjmaddy · 11-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Fortunately, it doesn't flicker, or jump, with Win2kPro.

- Thanks, Morgan, - it's the best thing that you convinced me I should change to!

feldon34 · 11-14-2008, 12:33 PM

That's high praise from Cliff.

Jav400 · 11-14-2008, 12:38 PM

After the smelling salts were applied I got up off of the floor I marked this day on the calendar.

cjmaddy · 11-14-2008, 12:44 PM

11-12-2008, 06:06 PM	#21
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	I'm still open to suggestions about the titlebar. The normal state is for a window to have a titlebar, which allows you to drag it, exit the program, etc. The Alpha testers wanted to just see the Aquarium window with no titlebar, but it still needs those other functions. So I came up with the compromise of just showing the titlebar when the mouse is over the window. This was REALLY hard, so I hate to throw it away. On some systems (Vista), the whole scene jumps when the bar appears or disappears, which is annoying. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-12-2008, 06:20 PM	#22
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Can you wait 2 seconds before showing the titlebar? As for the window jumping, I wonder if there is a parameter that you can read to calculate the thickness of the window and the height of the titlebar and use that in your figuring. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-12-2008, 06:30 PM	#23
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	I'm already doing that, but each opearating system is different. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-13-2008, 01:11 AM	#25
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	My major issue in window mode is the whole disapearing title bar that makes the aquarium jump up and down when the mouse passes by. It's incredibaly annoying. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

11-13-2008, 09:38 AM	#28
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Soc, The first iteration was different, the window did actually "move" or jump when the title bar disappeared. It actually moved up to where the top of the bar was before. Jim worked on it and got the bar to disappear and the window stays in the same place. At least thats the way it works on mine and the rest. What do you mean the window "jumps"? Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

11-13-2008, 12:18 AM	#24
Bob Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 103	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I'm still open to suggestions about the titlebar. Another option in settings? Always show, never show, auto show? I can appreciate how hard it is for you to throw away such a difficult piece of programing to get Windows to do something it is not designed to do. And I do really like running it without the title bar. But, the jumping window does disturb the illusion of the Aquarium. While I would rather run the Aquarium without the title bar I would rather run it with the title bar than have the window jump every time I move the cursor over it. Thanks, Bob

11-13-2008, 07:36 AM	#26
jleslie Engineer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,279	Perhaps just show the title bar when the screen-saver has focus and the Alt key is pressed? John

11-13-2008, 09:30 AM	#27
clifdene Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: UK Posts: 168	I doubt that the jumping has anything to do with the Beta. It does not happen on my PC. AMD Athlon 64, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) 3500+, 2048 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM), Radeon X600, XPHome SP3. DirectX 9.0c

11-13-2008, 10:18 AM	#29
Bob Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 103	Originally posted by clifdene: XPHome SP3 That may be the difference. Jim did say that the problem happens mostly on Vista. Bob

11-13-2008, 10:19 AM	#30
Bob Registered Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 103	Originally posted by Jav400: What do you mean the window "jumps"? Maybe "blinks" is a better description, Bob

11-13-2008, 11:07 AM	#31
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	It's because title bars are much bigger on Vista. That's why I was asking if there was some way for Jim to read the thickness of the title bar. Otherwise he'd have to put special case for Vista, and of course you can customize how Vista looks. It'd really be much better if he could calculate the total height of the title bar with some kind of system query. As for hiding/showing, I still believe waiting 2 seconds before showing it is the best deal. You should not have to change a setting or hold down any special keys to get to the title bar. That would be bad user interface design. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-13-2008, 11:32 AM	#32
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	When the titlebar appears on my Vista machine, the OS first resizes the window to include the size of the titlebar, then paints in the titlebar itself, then resizes the Aquarium picture just under the titlebar. All this only takes about a quarter-second. I have not been able to stop it from doing this, no matter what I try. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-13-2008, 08:16 PM	#33
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,454	You might just have to throw it away and go with a permanent title bar, Jim. Patrick

11-13-2008, 08:26 PM	#34
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	I might. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-13-2008, 11:27 PM	#35
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	I know this gets repetitive, and with everything requested it might be more options than you want to have shown. But would it be possible to have some kind of option/checkbox for the title bar instead of just throwing it out? Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

11-14-2008, 10:07 AM	#36
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	It comes down to who is bothered by the flicker/jump when the title bar appears? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-14-2008, 12:28 PM	#37
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Fortunately, it doesn't flicker, or jump, with Win2kPro. - Thanks, Morgan, - it's the best thing that you convinced me I should change to!

11-14-2008, 12:33 PM	#38
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	That's high praise from Cliff. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-14-2008, 12:38 PM	#39
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	After the smelling salts were applied I got up off of the floor I marked this day on the calendar. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

11-14-2008, 12:44 PM	#40
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854