Resolution: Can one go back to "Millions" after install?

GPyle · 10-21-2003, 10:20 AM

Hi,
I've just downloaded this product to try... and see that Color Resolution needs to be at "Thousands" to install. Simply put:

- After install, can one go back to "Millions"

Thanks you,
Greg Pyle

feldon34 · 10-21-2003, 10:45 AM

You need to switch from Millions and Thousands when running the Aquarium.

I think this is totally unacceptable as many Macs are used for graphic design. Just my opinion though.

GPyle · 10-21-2003, 10:53 AM

Your opinion is totally on-target. It's a nuisance to have to switch these settings (hello... can't MA figure it out and return to the native resolution afterwards?).

I will not install this because of this unfortunate circumstance. Please post when this is fixed.
Greg Pyle

Michael Babin · 10-21-2003, 03:09 PM

You don't need to switch from Millions (of colors) to Thousands in order to run MA/MAT for the Mac. The application and the screen saver will run perfectly fine with your display set to Millions (of colors). Where you may encounter a problem is if your video card does not have enough VRAM to accomodate MA/MAT and the needs of the system software. If you have 16 MB or more of VRAM, you should be fine. If you have 8 MB of VRAM, you may be fine depending on your resolution.

Once again, MA/MAT does not require you to run your system with the display settings set to thousands of colors. You may choose to do so for performance reasons based on the capabilities of your video card.

So why do the installation instructions ask you to switch to thousands of colors? A common problem when MA was first released was for a user with a lower end system to download the software, run the application and/or screen saver (with color depth set to Millions), notice poor performance (due to video memory not meeting system needs plus MA needs), and then either complain loudly (here, public forums, to tech support, etc) about performance or just give up and delete the software. Tech support added that note to the installation procedure because they had to commonly recommend it to users. If it causes this much confusion, then we need to revisit that decision.

feldon34 · 10-21-2003, 08:03 PM

"If you have a Macintosh system produced before 200x, you should set your monitor to Thousands of colors before installing the Aquarium."

Michael Babin · 10-21-2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by feldon27
"If you have a Macintosh system produced before 200x, you should set your monitor to Thousands of colors before installing the Aquarium."

I wish it were that simple, but it isn't. It's really a function of resolution, color depth and video memory. The higher the settings for the first two, the more of the third that you need. The requirements stated for the product provide much of this information, stating minimum processor and video memory requirements.

We're changing the wording of the installation instructions to reflect the fact that changing to thousands of colors is optional and intended to improve performance on lower end machines and/or video cards. We hope to have the updated instructions included on the web site and in the ReadMe file very soon.

feldon34 · 10-21-2003, 11:32 PM

Many Mac users are graphic designers and MUST work at the highest resolution and color depth possible. Yet Apple has for many years gone with anemic ATI cards. There are tens of thousands of Macs out there with marginal 3D hardware still in service as graphic design workstations.

It would be one thing if it were as easy and inexpensive to upgrade a Mac as it is to upgrade a PC, but this is not the case. Many of these workhorse Macs set their users back $2,000-4,000 and yet have non-standard video connectors that won't accomodate any modern video cards. There isn't an upgrade path at any price.

I may be in the minority and I haven't kept up-to-date on Mac news since I turned to the dark side in '96, but if I had a Mac that were a couple of years old, I would only be able to use and recommend the Mac Aquarium if it changed resolution/depth. Rarely will I want to run the Aquarium at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 at 32-bit color. Yet I cannot do graphic design at 800x600 16-bit color.

P.S. MacWorld's October 2003 issue mentioned Marine Aquarium 2 when reviewing After Dark for Mac OS X.

JimO'Connor · 10-22-2003, 10:56 PM

All Macs for the last many years (7 or so) which allow you to choose the monitor also allow you to replace the video because they are PCI or AGP cards. All Macs for the last many years (since the 68040 at least) allow you to attach industry standard VGA and/or DVI monitors. Apple used to have a special connector (DB-15 in 2 rows instead of 3 if I remember correctly), but that could easily be overcome with a simple $10 converter (I bought mine at CompUSA). The Cube, because of space concerns, had a very limited selection of upgrade video cards. Otherwise, upgrading video is easy and pretty cheap. Nubus Macs don't have cheap video options, but they are also either 68K based or very early PPC models with top speeds of 150MHz or so running OS 9. I don't know what these machines are doing, but it isn't running any recent version of Photoshop.

If you have an all-in-one Mac (an iMac, eMac, iBook or Powerbook) then you can't replace your video card, but hopefully you thought about that before you bought it. Also, you can't replace the monitor so the amount of pixels the card has to drive is fixed (except for Powerbooks which can drive a 23" Cinema Display with a $150 power supply/adapter for the ADC monitor). An 800 MHz Powerbook did a respectible job driving a 20" Apple display in addition to its internal display at 32 bits and full native resolution, running MA on both displays with at least 40 fps. Not shabby.

My 450 MHz Cube (over 3 years old) with the stock 16 Meg Video card running OS X.2.8 Server at 1280x1024 and 32 bits with shimmer off and economize video memory on gets 33 fps in the screen saver, 50 fps in the application at full screen with the demo condition (3 fish).

For OS X, Apple hasn't committed to supporting global monitor changes (yet) such as bit depth or resolution in the screen saver framework. Also, sometimes Apple doesn't actually terminate the screen saver in a clean fashion, so we wouldn't have an opportunity to restore the settings. People don't like it when you don't clean up after yourself.

If/when these obstacles are surmountable then we'll probably addi the feature to OS X.

For OS 9 Marine Aquarium DOES allow changing the monitor depth and resolution. Most older Macs are running OS 9, but owners of these machines aren't buying software in large numbers.

10-21-2003, 10:20 AM	#1
GPyle Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6	Resolution: Can one go back to "Millions" after install? Hi, I've just downloaded this product to try... and see that Color Resolution needs to be at "Thousands" to install. Simply put: - After install, can one go back to "Millions" Thanks you, Greg Pyle

10-21-2003, 10:45 AM	#2
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	You need to switch from Millions and Thousands when running the Aquarium. I think this is totally unacceptable as many Macs are used for graphic design. Just my opinion though. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-21-2003, 08:03 PM	#5
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	"If you have a Macintosh system produced before 200x, you should set your monitor to Thousands of colors before installing the Aquarium." "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-21-2003, 11:32 PM	#7
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Many Mac users are graphic designers and MUST work at the highest resolution and color depth possible. Yet Apple has for many years gone with anemic ATI cards. There are tens of thousands of Macs out there with marginal 3D hardware still in service as graphic design workstations. It would be one thing if it were as easy and inexpensive to upgrade a Mac as it is to upgrade a PC, but this is not the case. Many of these workhorse Macs set their users back $2,000-4,000 and yet have non-standard video connectors that won't accomodate any modern video cards. There isn't an upgrade path at any price. I may be in the minority and I haven't kept up-to-date on Mac news since I turned to the dark side in '96, but if I had a Mac that were a couple of years old, I would only be able to use and recommend the Mac Aquarium if it changed resolution/depth. Rarely will I want to run the Aquarium at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 at 32-bit color. Yet I cannot do graphic design at 800x600 16-bit color. P.S. MacWorld's October 2003 issue mentioned Marine Aquarium 2 when reviewing After Dark for Mac OS X. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

10-22-2003, 10:56 PM	#8
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	All Macs for the last many years (7 or so) which allow you to choose the monitor also allow you to replace the video because they are PCI or AGP cards. All Macs for the last many years (since the 68040 at least) allow you to attach industry standard VGA and/or DVI monitors. Apple used to have a special connector (DB-15 in 2 rows instead of 3 if I remember correctly), but that could easily be overcome with a simple $10 converter (I bought mine at CompUSA). The Cube, because of space concerns, had a very limited selection of upgrade video cards. Otherwise, upgrading video is easy and pretty cheap. Nubus Macs don't have cheap video options, but they are also either 68K based or very early PPC models with top speeds of 150MHz or so running OS 9. I don't know what these machines are doing, but it isn't running any recent version of Photoshop. If you have an all-in-one Mac (an iMac, eMac, iBook or Powerbook) then you can't replace your video card, but hopefully you thought about that before you bought it. Also, you can't replace the monitor so the amount of pixels the card has to drive is fixed (except for Powerbooks which can drive a 23" Cinema Display with a $150 power supply/adapter for the ADC monitor). An 800 MHz Powerbook did a respectible job driving a 20" Apple display in addition to its internal display at 32 bits and full native resolution, running MA on both displays with at least 40 fps. Not shabby. My 450 MHz Cube (over 3 years old) with the stock 16 Meg Video card running OS X.2.8 Server at 1280x1024 and 32 bits with shimmer off and economize video memory on gets 33 fps in the screen saver, 50 fps in the application at full screen with the demo condition (3 fish). For OS X, Apple hasn't committed to supporting global monitor changes (yet) such as bit depth or resolution in the screen saver framework. Also, sometimes Apple doesn't actually terminate the screen saver in a clean fashion, so we wouldn't have an opportunity to restore the settings. People don't like it when you don't clean up after yourself. If/when these obstacles are surmountable then we'll probably addi the feature to OS X. For OS 9 Marine Aquarium DOES allow changing the monitor depth and resolution. Most older Macs are running OS 9, but owners of these machines aren't buying software in large numbers. Jim O'Connor Order N Development

10-21-2003, 10:53 AM	#3
GPyle Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6	Your opinion is totally on-target. It's a nuisance to have to switch these settings (hello... can't MA figure it out and return to the native resolution afterwards?). I will not install this because of this unfortunate circumstance. Please post when this is fixed. Greg Pyle

10-21-2003, 03:09 PM	#4
Michael Babin Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 199	You don't need to switch from Millions (of colors) to Thousands in order to run MA/MAT for the Mac. The application and the screen saver will run perfectly fine with your display set to Millions (of colors). Where you may encounter a problem is if your video card does not have enough VRAM to accomodate MA/MAT and the needs of the system software. If you have 16 MB or more of VRAM, you should be fine. If you have 8 MB of VRAM, you may be fine depending on your resolution. Once again, MA/MAT does not require you to run your system with the display settings set to thousands of colors. You may choose to do so for performance reasons based on the capabilities of your video card. So why do the installation instructions ask you to switch to thousands of colors? A common problem when MA was first released was for a user with a lower end system to download the software, run the application and/or screen saver (with color depth set to Millions), notice poor performance (due to video memory not meeting system needs plus MA needs), and then either complain loudly (here, public forums, to tech support, etc) about performance or just give up and delete the software. Tech support added that note to the installation procedure because they had to commonly recommend it to users. If it causes this much confusion, then we need to revisit that decision.

10-21-2003, 10:36 PM	#6
Michael Babin Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 199	Originally posted by feldon27 "If you have a Macintosh system produced before 200x, you should set your monitor to Thousands of colors before installing the Aquarium." I wish it were that simple, but it isn't. It's really a function of resolution, color depth and video memory. The higher the settings for the first two, the more of the third that you need. The requirements stated for the product provide much of this information, stating minimum processor and video memory requirements. We're changing the wording of the installation instructions to reflect the fact that changing to thousands of colors is optional and intended to improve performance on lower end machines and/or video cards. We hope to have the updated instructions included on the web site and in the ReadMe file very soon.