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Old 03-24-2004, 01:51 PM   #21
feldon34
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PR is the other guy's problem.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 03-24-2004, 01:58 PM   #22
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True.

Also, I apply a simple formula. We currently have one Addy, but if we promote positive PR, then we might add more Addys (or is that Addi?). They would definitively gang up on me, that can’t be good.

I’m thinking of becoming a surgeon, I am often told I have the bed side manner of a surgeon.
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Old 03-24-2004, 02:17 PM   #23
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*wonders if Frank is reading the forums these days*
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 03-24-2004, 03:10 PM   #24
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:16 PM   #25
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At the risk of stirring things up again (though that is truly not my intention), it seems to me that the burning of a flag is just another valid form of political expression, a statement that one is in strong disagreement with the current government or administration. Granted, there is the aspect of vandalism for destroying a piece of cloth, but it is only a symbol of an artificial political construct, for better or worse, and one which is likely to change again anyway in the very short term.

What scares me far more is the occasional practice of book burning, with the accompanying implication that ignorance is better than knowledge, that superstition is better than wisdom, and that one belief system has the right to anihilate another belief system. That way lies fanaticism, and that's when the trouble *really* starts.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:46 PM   #26
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Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this flag burning debate, but as a US citizen, I just can't help myself...

I'm the first to admit that the US has it's political and social problems. And I get just as mad about it as the next person. But I don't think that burning a flag of my country is an expression of free speech, I feel it's should be a criminal act.

If you are that dissatisfied with this country, get out! Too many of my friends, our fathers, and brothers have died to give you the right to burn the very flag, the symbol of the country they died to protect. I'm sorry I can't abide it.

Answer me this, how many people burning flags have served in thier countries military? Call me a patriot, hell, call me a capitalist pig, I don't really care. (That's where your right to free speech comes in). But don't burn the symbol of the country that so many have died for.

Just leave and make room for someone else who really wants to be here.

Flame off....

P.S. I'm not really mad or upset by this thread, but I needed to get that off my chest. I feel better now, and will now slink away and hide from the barage of replies I have probably invoked....
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:52 PM   #27
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1. Q: I feel it's should be a criminal act.
A: What is the crime? You got your feelings hurt?

I’m not sure what being a capitalist has to do with being patriotic. But, I too am both, and strongly. I’m so strongly a patriot that there is nothing you can do to undermine my belief in America. Burning our flag is your expression. It is a great way to show others you are angry about something. Knock your self out. Gather together people to vote your system into affect. If you fail, try again. Try (within the constraints of our system) to make your point.
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:18 AM   #28
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Reich,
I'm a bit unsure about the term objectivist so I can't really respond too that before chatting up Google, but let me try and explain myself:

Like I originally said, I don't have a problem with flag burning, (nor do I grasp what it has to do with capitalism). As far as I'm concerned you can add the feature of someone urinating on the flag though I feel sorry for the poor sod who gets a buzz out of looking at a burning/pee-stained flag. I pity the way censorship is tacked on so much of (apparently especially the U.S.) society. I don't think I would agree on the idea of the current "world" (situation) could/should be labeled as "mine".

So you don't believe anyone will use ACME dynamite to blow up their neighbors parakeet after watching some Looney Toons (sp?), – Fine, me neither. I was objecting to the opposite situation, that someone set on blowing up the next-door pet would put all such plans to rest just by watching Wylie & RR.

Thanks for taking the time to read this far, I'll shut up soon.

I've tried to think this over a little bit more and I can't say that I don't want burning to be added because it's morally wrong or offfensive, just that it would be a bit tasteless and juvenile. How's that? It was just the blanket statement that as long as it's not real it's perfectly ok. Like a collapsable WTC addon for Ms FlightSim. – Not illegal, but who would want to be associated with such a product?

To conclude once more to make sure I get across. I have no problem with flag burning being integrated into FotW. Please feel free to do so AFAIC.

/Tiny Truce

P.S.
I think it would be "Addi" too

P.P.S.
A quick search on "objectivist" helped me to understand that it wuold take me quite some (boring) time to be able to understand that joke. Those people sure like their long words, don't they?
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:46 AM   #29
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1. Q: I don't want burning to be added because it's morally wrong or offfensive, just that it would be a bit tasteless and juvenile. How's that?
A: GREAT! We totally agree.

There was a famouse court case in America back in the 60s. The case was basically against a movie theater which showed some nudity in a movie (your country would laugh at this case, it was a French movie called The Lovers). The judge called it “pornography” By today’s standards it would be called “boring.”

The “judge” lost the case (since it was really him who had to make the final call), and commented on pornography (which he could not define as a crime), “I know it when I see it.”

Do you want to live in a world where people tell you what is what because “they know it when they see it?” We do!

Tiny, you have the makings of a great Objectivist, but it requires a little training and practice. Not that you would necessarily want to be an objectivist, I’m not really an objectivist, but it is important and useful to understand objectivism completely when engaging arguments about “opinion.”

If you were going to start running for exercise, would you “just” run, or would you do many exercises, and improve your diet in order to be a healthy well rounded runner? Debating, opinion, and life views are like this.

Yes, learning about Objectivism is difficult and time consuming, but once grasped, it will completely change your approach to almost everything…even if you do not agree with all the tenets.

May I truly suggest to you (and everyone) read Atlas Shrugged. It stands on its own as a great book (very long). Worth reading every page, or get it on Tape and enjoy it for several weeks when driving to work. But it is the fastest way to grasp objectivism.

But, in a nutshell, objectivism is a painful process (that gets easier over time) of undermining your own preconceived-culturally–inspired-religiously-controlled belief systems, and throwing them away in favour of what is true.

A simple example is to go back in time, and consider how many of your current views would land you in prison, even in the same culture, or religious environment.

I often feel that I have been “dropped off” in this century, and I fear speaking of the world being round.
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Old 03-25-2004, 10:37 AM   #30
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I often feel that I have been “dropped off” in this century, and I fear speaking of the world being round.
Me too, Reichart.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:04 PM   #31
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Reichart is actually very lucky to be living in this century and this country. In other times and places he would have been burned at the stake for embracing the Randian philosophy
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:25 PM   #32
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:17 AM   #33
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Cool, we seemed to have reached a (slightliy fatigue-driven) consensus here.

I (apparently incorrectly) assumed that cheesy and juvinile were negative aspects, and responded to that. I'm dropping the issue then.

I just might have a look at yer manual of life, but trying to assimilate that kind of information (and in English!) while driving might be a little more than my masculinely (sp?) single-tasking brain could handle...

/Tiny Stripe
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:47 PM   #34
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Jeeeze people I was joking about the burning flag
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:11 PM   #35
Reichart
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Funny, I joke about everything...

And the funnier I find it, the less funny others tend to find it.

oops, gotta’run, some angry villiagers are running up my lawn with pitch forks yelling something about “burn him at the stake.”

…again…
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:52 PM   #36
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You should go live in France, Reichart. They don't burn steaks there. Quite the reverse.
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:22 PM   #37
Reichart
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So...your advice is to send me...a Prussian...to France.

Oh yeah, they will "love me" there.

Thanks Wizard...
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:41 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Reichart
True.

Also, I apply a simple formula. We currently have one Addy, but if we promote positive PR, then we might add more Addys (or is that Addi?). They would definitively gang up on me, that can’t be good.

I’m thinking of becoming a surgeon, I am often told I have the bed side manner of a surgeon.
What? Cutting?

You're cool, to each his own. I don't want to burn my nation's flag but now there are some others I might consider.
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Old 03-28-2004, 12:09 PM   #39
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"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

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Old 03-28-2004, 12:38 PM   #40
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