Can we Have a WIP Thread?

[Sergiales]

I think that the LW2DX conversion "problem" can be analyzed in depth, and get solved.

I don't know if that "custom converter" already exists or not. If not, then if Jim is not able to code it by his own, perhaps others are willing to do it (even for a non commercial purpose).

It would be nice to talk in depth about it. Perhaps i (or someone - i.e. Ad_Enuff) could help. What we (all) really want is to get this problem solved as soon as possible.

I'm not talking about releasing a demo or just some screenshots. I'm just talking about solving the LW2DX problem in order to make some progresses.

I'm not sure if the Lightwave creators are willing to collaborate with Jim. Is the Lightwave model format a well known format? is a binary format, or a plain-text format?.

I could do a serious research, even writing (if needed) a LW2DX custom model converter. It's only Jim's decision to leave us cooperate with him (or not).

It comes a moment in which it doesn't make any sense to block the project development for a single problem, and it is necessary to delegate some tasks to others. Are we waiting for the Lightwave creators to get in touch with Jim for explaining the inside of the format?. Is that the only one solution to the problem?.

We all recognize Jim's talent as a master artist, and we want the FA to be done by him, but it doesn't make any sense to keep waiting for a single problem that takes so long to be solved (and the LW2DX converter problem actually is not new...).

Sorry for my comments, but it's what i think.

[Ad_Enuff]

Originally posted by Sergiales
Sorry for my comments, but it's what i think.

I agree whole heartedly! Nice to see people rally round to get things done and try to help Jim out on this issue of LW2DX.

Perhaps once new LW2DX converer is made, it perhaps will bring a huge breakthrough in terms of this project.

I am not here to kiss ass, other threads are clearly doing that for me and Jim's talent has already been praised. This thread I hope, will thrash out some of the problems and give Jim the emotional and technical support, ideas and tools he needs to carry on.

Lets stop talking about the problem and let's all try and help solve it once and for all.

[Yellow Tang]

I think this is a good effort to show our will to contribute to Jim's "hobby". The whole thing is probably to complex for anyone else than Jim, he is the only one who knows all the little things involved.
At least, this thread can give him some new thoughts, and maybe we get some news about the progress he made.

[Ad_Enuff]

Originally posted by Yellow Tang
The whole thing is probably to complex for anyone else than Jim, he is the only one who knows all the little things involved.

This is not true, in fact this forum has some of the best fans a project could have in terms of knowledge and technical expertise.

We have quite a few computer geeks out there, both in terms of hardware, software and programming. Of which some of these guys have already handed the hand of friendship to give Jim a welcome hand.

Jim,

I know its hard to get a 3rd party involved, I remember what happened all those months ago with that guy who was taking pictures of fish for you, only to find he then pulled the old "where's my cut of the money". Which I appreciate where your coming from on that point, but we could thrash out some details or even just provide you with just tools to get you started.

Any help these guys on here can give, in my opinion, would be well received.

[feldon34]

Jim can create the fish in Lightwave and convert it to DirectX, but then he is at a roadblock -- he can't manipulate the vertices in the groups he created in Lightwave. That information is lost in the conversion to DirectX. So what he almost needs is a companion file to be produced for each fish which tells him which vertices go with which groups.

[Sergiales]

That vertices groups could be directly related to separated and individual objects. Yes, i know, Jim doesn't want separated objects. Do we already discard that solution?.

Then the problem is that the DirectX converter omits the per-vertex group information, right?. Ok, we have to add some choices in order to solve this...

Questions:

1) What's the problem with reading directly the Lightwave format? Is it possible?.

2) Is the DirectX format prepared for storing a per-vertex group information field? or does Jim need an additional companion file with this extra info?.

3) What if i write a tool that takes the Lightwave format as input, and writes that companion file?.

4) Can the object model be exported in plain text?. Could we get specifications for the Lightwave file format?.

5) Are the vertices numbered? is it really necessary?

[drfish]

I only understand part of it, but I love reading it...

[Sergiales]

Originally posted by drfish
I only understand part of it, but I love reading it...

Probably because of my bad English, sorry

[Tiny Turtle]

Not likely, Sergio. More like Doc isn't the comp geek he'd like to be...

*quacking in cover*

[patscarr]

Your English is great, Sergio. Tiny is more accurate.
Hahaha! Good one Tiny!

[drfish]

Tiny's correct, your english isn't at fault at all... Let me put it this way, I understood most of it, but couldn't do any of it...

[Sergiales]

It's a bit limited, but i really enjoy writing in English. And... who cares if it is not good enough... ahah!.

[ESHIREY]

There you go.

[Jim Sachs]

Sergiales -

Thanks for perking up this thread. By they way, both you and Tiny are so skilled in English that no one here would even guess that it's not your first language.

I've got a busy day today, but tonight I'll try to post a message with more insight into the exact problem. I'm certainly not opposed to someone else coming up with a proper Lightwave converter, and I'm sure that many developers would find it useful. There are already a couple of public-domain programs out there, but they throw away most of the vital information.

The Lightwave format is binary. While not a secret format, it's not well-publicized.

[feldon34]

I looked at the Lightwave format. I had nightmares.

I also know how meticulously you edit your DirectX files.

[Ad_Enuff]

Good to see people thrashing some ideas around!

Brilliant! Keep it up!

[Sergiales]

The Lightwave (v6) file format is found here:
http://www.newtek.com/products/light...o2.html#H_file

Jim, what version of Lightwave do you have?.

I've been searching for that "vertices groups", but i haven't found them in the file specification.
Each vertex (point) has a reference in the "Polygon List", the "Vertex Mapping", and the "Discontinuous Vertex Mapping". It's specially interesting to know that the vertex mapping has a property called "PICK": "Selection set. This is a VMAP of dimension 0 that marks points for *quick selection by name* during modeling. It has no effect on the geometry of the object.".

Jim, is this property what you call "vertices group"? If not, please could you take a look at the specifications and tell me where do you think it is described?. Thanks.

[Jim Sachs]

I use Lightwave 8.

Yes, the Selection Sets are what are important to me. I need for these points to be retained in the .X file, in exactly the same order they were originally selected.

It's also vital that the original part names be retained (like leftfin, eye, etc.) Currently, LW to DX converters just throw everything into one mesh.

[Sergiales]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
I use Lightwave 8.

The official web site has the v6. I don't know if the geometry file specification for LW6 is equal to the used by LW8...

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
Yes, the Selection Sets are what are important to me. I need for these points to be retained in the .X file,

I'm afraid that the .x file probably cannot handle extra info (as the selections, which seems to be a Lightwave's native property). As Morgan said, perhaps that extra info has to be stored in a companion file, not in the .x file itself.

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
...in exactly the same order they were originally selected.

Hmmm... why?. It doesn't make much sense to me. The idea is that after you've read the .x (and the extra file containing the selection sets), you should be able to mount a structure in memory to which you could access the way you want. That is, you could move the fish eye or fins whenever you want and in the order you want, independently of how is the data stored in the file. Do you understand (more or less) what i mean?

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
It's also vital that the original part names be retained (like leftfin, eye, etc.) Currently, LW to DX converters just throw everything into one mesh.

Are your models made from one single object, or from more than one?.

The Lightwave SDK comes with a geometry file reader (probably not fully functional). I'm going to take a look at it.

[Edgar]

Originally posted by Sergiales
I'm afraid that the .x file probably cannot handle extra info (as the selections, which seems to be a Lightwave's native property). As Morgan said, perhaps that extra info has to be stored in a companion file, not in the .x file itself.

The .x file format allows custom format. If you have the .x file exporter plugin source, you can add new formats that only your custom reader will need. This means a companion file is not necessary.

The things you will need are the following in the exporter:
1. Set up a header for the custom format for registering that new template.
2. Generate the custom format data.

In the reader:
1. Register the new format.
2. Parse the new format.

From what I know, the hardest part is in the exporter. The data that Jim needs has to be generated to the exact specs that he asks for. That means the info he needs has to be extracted by the exporter plugin from LightWave, the same way other info are now being extracted.

I am working on the same problem that Jim has but using 3DS MAX as the source. The easy part is that the current .x file exporter for 3DS MAX already support the info so I won't need to rewrite that part. I am only rewriting the reader to handle the new data that is being exported.

Note: I haven't played with the current LightWave exporter that Jim and/or Prolific has so I don't know how to help Jim on it yet.