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Old 02-17-2003, 11:59 PM   #41
Jim Sachs
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I will also hate to see the floppy drives go. It's the only thing you could always count on every machine having. Of course evryone here would have CD burners, but we don't represent the real world. If I want to show the Aquarium to my Aunt Rose in Kansas City, it better be on a floppy.
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:26 AM   #42
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Well they tried replacements for them but none of them really took. The 120's just didn't cut it. I know that alot of people have burners now, I just replaced my old one with a new Plextor 48x, but somehow I don't really consider burners a defacto floppy replacement, but it's probably the closest thing there is to one.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:26 PM   #43
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Dissapointed with floppies

Remember, floppy disks got their name from the big 5.25 inch floppy disks - that were actually floppy. Anyone remember those? Has anyone seen a PC with a 5.25 inch floppy drive lately? Like it or not, the 'new' 3.5 inch 'floppy' disks will also go away ...just like 8track tapes - it's (almost) outdated technology.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:37 PM   #44
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Wink

If they get rid of the floppy, how in the world am I going to boot the computer up when I need to kill the partitions and format the thing. Or what if I have to kill the bios or upgrade it with a 400 kb file. AM I going to have to burn 400kb onto a cd to do it. Am I going to have to get stuck booting up with a cdrom with the pre-installed garbage all the companies put on their new PC's. Ohh well, If that is the case, I must spend the 25 cents for the floppy next time I buy a computer.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:19 PM   #45
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My grandma still has a working Comadore 64 with the 5.25" floppy drive. It also has a casette tape backup and a cartrage slot for games and programes similar to an Atari. Just thought I'd share that.
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:17 PM   #46
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Kona - Don't worry about boot disks. Even if you decided to go with something like an "EasyDisk" (or other such USB flash device), most of these are actually bootable. You can set it up as a boot disk quite easily, if your system supports "Boot to USB" in it's BIOS. All my techs have been issued 256MB drives and they keep all their tools on one device that fits in their shirt pocket.

As for flashing your BIOS, most all of the newer motherboards will actually let you flash the BIOS in Windows. I didn't trust it at first, but it actually works quite well on the Intel and ASUS motherboards.

Don't buy a "manufactured" PC. They almost always have a ton of crap pre-installed and they don't usually give you a copy of Windows or drivers. They love their little "restore CD's." It helps on their tech support. If your computer locks up for any reason, they'll tell you to insert your "restore CD" and put the system back the way it came out of the box, losing your data at the same time.

The next time you or a friend need a system, get a friend or a GOOD local shop to build you one. I think you'll find you will get a great PC for at or below the big guy's prices. The only thing the "big guys" had for them was their tech support being 24/7, but now that has been moved overseas to India. I had to deal with them today for one of my clients that owns a Dell. Took me six hours to get them to understand and admit his hard drive was bad. (Not Fun)

Anyhow.. In my opinion, the floppy has outlasted it's usefulness and it's time for retirement. Better, faster technology is here and it's ALMOST as cheap.
?
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:35 PM   #47
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Answering kona's queries...

If they get rid of the floppy, how in the world am I going to boot the computer up when I need to kill the partitions and format the thing.
Not sure how you are reformatting/reinstalling your computer. Windows 2000 boots from a CD or if you are a masochist, you can make 4 boot floppies. It won't work with less. Windows 2000 is big, but efficient. Sounds stupid, but the fact is, Win2k is solid as a rock and runs faster than 98 and manages memory as Windows should always have done so.

Or what if I have to kill the bios or upgrade it with a 400 kb file.
The newer BIOS flashing programs can do their magic while Windows is running.

Am I going to have to get stuck booting up with a cdrom with the pre-installed garbage all the companies put on their new PC's.
I have NEVER bought a pre-built computer from a name brand and now, more than ever, there is no excuse for anyone to do so unless they are buying a laptop (in which case, Dell and Sony are what I'd get). :wink:

I highly recommend CyberPower's built computers. Please come into the chatroom or e-mail me if you would like to chat or work-up a system. :tongue: There are some other system configurators here on this forum too.

Ohh well, If that is the case, I must spend the 25 cents for the floppy next time I buy a computer.
If you are buying/building a computer, I hope you will be running Windows 2000 on it which does not require floppies.
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Old 02-20-2003, 12:27 AM   #48
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Well, I understand your point about floppys on their way out the door (so to speak). But mine is staying right where it is.
I like many others have not used it in ages, but there is that ocassional once in a blue moon where it just seems to come in handy. Many hardware manufacturers still just seem to be distributing their drivers that come with the (optional) computer hardware you buy only on floppy disk (ie... some of the cheap CD-Rom Drives I've bought only seem too come with drivers on floppy, I know you probably won't even need to use them, but you never know? they might just come in handy for Windows 95 users ... yes there are still some out there believe it or not!)

Another example of it coming in handy is not to long ago I was given a Multimedia (PS/2) Keyboard, which only came with drivers/software on floppy. I also noticed at some stores (being a Fry's Electronics Customer) that sell generic computer hardware, some of that stuff has drivers only available on floppy.

IMHO, even though it is outdated, do not discredit the usefulness that it may bring (many other things are somewhat outdated too ie... VHS & Audio Cassette, but they are still being used by the masses everyday). They (floppy drives) are very inexpensive, they do not take up much space in your PC & only have to be used when you absolutely need them.

For now I'm keeping mine until something replaces it 100%.
Just my 2¢ !
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:42 PM   #49
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When you install 2000/XP with certain IDE/SCSI controllers, don't you still need to use a floppy driver to recognize your drives. I know for sure there are still controllers that need the driver during setup, and I don't think it gives you any option but to put in a floppy.

So that right there is something that will have to change. Surely the floppy is not yet dead for technical reasons, but these are pretty minor bumps to cross for the ultimate phase out.
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:56 PM   #50
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I just don't see anything on the horizon which could replace the floppy. Burning a CD is still a major undertaking compared to just dumping a file to a floppy. I have 4 machines with CD burners, and none of them really like CDs which are made on any of the others. Don't even get me started on CDRW.

Memory sticks, compact flash cards, etc, would be great, but there are a half-dozen different proprietary formats, with no standard in sight.

I like the size and feel of a floppy. I like the hard shell which you can grab any way you want instead of gingerly picking it up the way people handle CDs. I like the way a floppy fits in my shirt pocket, so I can always have it with me. I like the mechanical feel of a floppy drive -- that satisfying THUNK when you put a disk in -- not a flimsy motorized tray. But most of all, I like the fact that you can still get the floppy out when the machine is powered-down or locked-up, just by pressing a good, solid mechanical ejector button.
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:27 PM   #51
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Have you used a CD Writer with Windows XP?

It really is pretty easy to just dump some files on a CD. It's native. Pretty soon I can see them making it so easy you won't know the difference.
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:37 PM   #52
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Yes, my main machine has XP with a CD/DVD burner. Still a hassle compared to a floppy, because of all the writing/rewriting that goes on when I want to make a copy. "Oops, was that the debug or release version I just copied?" Wrong one. Another copy. "Oops, did I change the icon on that file?" No. Another copy. I've usually gone through about 6 CDs just to take a copy across the street and try it out on my neighbor's computer.
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Old 02-20-2003, 06:28 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs
....just to take a copy across the street and try it out on my neighbor's computer.
I want to live next door to Jim.


Funny how a 'disapointed with the aquarium' thread turned into a discussion of floppies.
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Old 02-20-2003, 07:12 PM   #54
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Remember, floppy disks got their name from the big 5.25 inch floppy disks - that were actually floppy.
Heck, I still remember the very old and very large 11 inch floppies, talk about a frisbee.
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Old 02-20-2003, 07:55 PM   #55
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Jim Sachs said:
I just don't see anything on the horizon which could replace the floppy. Burning a CD is still a major undertaking compared to just dumping a file to a floppy. I have 4 machines with CD burners, and none of them really like CDs which are made on any of the others.
I'm sorry that you are having configuration problems on your computers, possibly with marginal burning software/ burners/or blanks? Are you trying to get a wide cross-section of users who run the Aquarium this way?

High quality burners (Plextor, TDK, Ricoh, Yamaha) burning with high-quality software (Nero, Exact Audio Copy), onto high-quality blanks (TDK, Memorex, Verbatim, Mitsui) WILL work on ANY player you throw them at except DVD players with a single laser.

Don't even get me started on CDRW.
CD-RW is a very mature format.

What might be confusing is if you are extending the data that is already on the CD. In most cases, I erase the CD-RW and use it as a blank CD again. Only if you are extending an existing CD-RW for a specific reason should you do it.


I have to say when you mention computer meltdowns/problems/etc. you get a lot of deserved sympathies. But I have to wonder sometimes if the choice of hardware is the real culprit here.

My cash resources at the time I bought my first CD burner were .00001% of yours. Which one did I buy? The HP? the Philips? At a time when the only CD burner you could buy in any store were HP/Philips drives that burned at 1x for $400 and had serious compatibility problems, which one did I buy? The $550 external Yamaha SCSI 4x burner. Out of a few hundred discs, I had maybe 5-10 coasters and that was because of mistakes on my part or bad blanks. Of course if I visit Calif, you would never let me in your computer room, otherwise I would go around and make a shopping list and head off to CompUSA and start trying to improve the stability of your development environment.

*sigh*

Memory sticks, compact flash cards, etc, would be great, but there are a half-dozen different proprietary formats, with no standard in sight.
It does not matter what you buy, so buy something! CompactFlash and SmartMedia are the industry leaders. CompactFlash will read in any laptop with a $12 small adapter without any need for software/drivers/other help. if you are paranoid about ending up with a memory card that won't work in a computer that doesn't have the right slot for it, get a USB drive. These are the size of a fat ballpoint pen but shorter and hold 64, 128MB or more. There are no drivers to install and it hooks up to any USB port on the planet. You plug it in, and a drive letter shows up. Finish what you're doing, pull the drive out, and you're ready to go.

There is no reason not to jump on the flash memory bandwagon (although for your needs, 802.11b is what I'd get).

I like the size and feel of a floppy. I like the hard shell which you can grab any way you want instead of gingerly picking it up the way people handle CDs. I like the way a floppy fits in my shirt pocket, so I can always have it with me.
Floppies are made so poorly that the chances of data getting from my home to someone's house on a floppy intact are slim and none. I have not used floppies for 3 years because I never have so little data to transfer. I can write a CD with 50 floppies worth of stuff in 45 seconds and the CD works on ANY reader.

But most of all, I like the fact that you can still get the floppy out when the machine is powered-down or locked-up, just by pressing a good, solid mechanical ejector button.
As much of a fan of the Mac people as you are, they still don't have an eject button. It is an absolutely trivial matter to turn the power back on to the PC long enough to eject the disc and then power off the PC before it starts booting up. Or you can do it the Mac way and insert a straightened paperclip.

Yes, my main machine has XP with a CD/DVD burner. Still a hassle compared to a floppy, because of all the writing/rewriting that goes on when I want to make a copy. "Oops, was that the debug or release version I just copied?" Wrong one. Another copy. "Oops, did I change the icon on that file?" No. Another copy. I've usually gone through about 6 CDs just to take a copy across the street and try it out on my neighbor's computer.
I can't even begin to imagine what steps are generating these results.
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Old 02-21-2003, 03:01 AM   #56
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maybe jim is trying to say we are losing that touchy-feely feeling .
i like using a hammer instead of an air gun. i too like the sound and feel of a floppy going in and out....lol
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Old 02-21-2003, 08:39 AM   #57
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have to be honest think Ive used my Floppy 1-2 times in the last 2 yrs hehe. Prolly moved it out of case for upgrade purposes more than Ive used it even. Yes its still there but honestly it is getting to the point of being unnesser for computing anymore.
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Old 02-21-2003, 08:42 AM   #58
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Envision this........

Your CD-R fails, your system crashes and now you have to reboot the whole thing to get both working again.......

Fantasy? Not really, this has happened to many computers I have worked on due to conflicts and bad drivers ( don't forget that nasty word as well... VIRUS).

Having a floppy drive was the only way to get things back in order again.

I want to keep the floppy around for a little while longer till they make a fool-proof option.
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Old 02-21-2003, 10:31 AM   #59
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It is simply not viable to work on a Win2k/XP system without a CD.

CD-R drives do not HAVE drivers.

handimann said:
i too like the sound and feel of a floppy going in and out
Hey, this is a family forum.
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Old 02-21-2003, 02:35 PM   #60
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AlabamaTom said:

Your CD-R fails, your system crashes and now you have to reboot the whole thing to get both working again........
I think what Tom is referring to is an unreadable CD-R disc due to surface damage, bit rot or any other factor that makes it unreadable in the systems paticular CD-Rom drive(s). A floppy drive would be your logical backup device (in most sytems).

Fantasy? Not really, this has happened to many computers I have worked on due to conflicts and bad drivers ( don't forget that nasty word as well... VIRUS).
I think what Tom means here by conflicts, bad drivers & virus(viri) is they are the usual cause of a system crashing, not cd-r drives working incorrectly because of driver issues.

Having a floppy drive was the only way to get things back in order again.
Just another example being shown of the usefullness of the (ancient?) floppy drive/disk.

I want to keep the floppy around for a little while longer till they make a fool-proof option.
I, totally agree with you on this one Tom. I'm gonna keep mine around for a while longer, until something comes along and replaces it 100%!

Just my
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