I love this program!

Lightfeather · 10-20-2001, 03:01 PM

I have been an aquarium enthusiast for some time now. When I was 14 and got my first "real" job, I worked the whole dang summer for one thing. My first 55 gallon aquarium.

When I moved out of my parents home two years ago, I couldn't take my birds or my aquarium. I spent many hours off and on for the last two years looking for this very product.

Although it is a salt water aquarium and not fresh, which is what I had to leave behind, it still makes me so very happy. I had actually set my heart on a salt water environment when I bought that aquarium but they were too expensive to maintain for a 14 year old, plus my parents didn't think I was up to the challenge.

I have yet to find a realistic 3D Avairy (or even a single bird), so I have snuck a couple from home here to my apartment! Shhh. Don't tell =)

One thing I have noticed about the program is that every time it is launched, the starfish always ends up in the same starting position. It is hard to tell if the fish do as well as I always keep them on random and, well, they're fish and they move around much more. The starfish on the other hand would be hard pressed to book it back to that same spot every time the program is launched and shut down.

Just as an added touch of realism, the starfish should launch in a randomized position every time the program is activated. Just as when you go over to look at your aquarium, the contents aren't always in the same spot.

Maybe the program can save the last position the animals were in on shutdown and start from those positions on program re-launch.

Lightfeather

Jim Sachs · 10-20-2001, 03:44 PM

I am hesitant to save the last position of the starfish (or any other data) when the Aquarium is shut down. I try to keep Registry-writes to a minimum because if power happens to be interrupted during a write, it can bring down the whole system. I cringe every time I exit the Settings screen, and it seems like writing to the Registry after every session is just asking for trouble.

Lightfeather · 10-20-2001, 03:52 PM

Very true. It isn't a big deal anyway.
I love this program just the way it is.

^_^

Jav400 · 10-20-2001, 07:36 PM

Lightfeathers Nest,

Welcome to the forum, and glad you are enjoying Jim's Screen Saver so much. Like you, I was hunting for a realistic aquarium and stumbled across Jim's work, hmmm almost a year ago now.

There are many more things yet to be done on this project, and you will be glad to hear, that in the future there will also be an Avairy Screen Saver programmed by Jim. So, hang around, more supprises are in store.

pipeta · 10-21-2001, 07:16 AM

I agree with Lightfeathers Nest, it would be nice if the fish and starfish wouldn't start at the same place every time. Jim, if you don't want to save their location randomizing it (as Lightfeathers mentioned) would be just as good. I hope it won't take much time to implement (3 or 4 different start locations are more than enough).
Thanks for your time...

Jim Sachs · 10-21-2001, 10:59 AM

That's probably what I'll do.

Coelacanth · 10-22-2001, 07:49 PM

Jim, you could just use the "turd drop" method. (Pardon the expression, but that's the programmers' lingo.)

It wouldn't necessarily have to save the starfish's position in the registry. It could just write to a very small, separate text or dat file stored somewhere on the hard disk. That way, at least if the system goes down during a write, at least it wasn't messing around in the registry when it happened (much more potentially dangerous).

Just a thought.

Jim Sachs · 10-22-2001, 10:46 PM

I like to keep everything in one file. That way if someone wants to delete it, they don't have to go searching for any little pieces all over their hard drive.

pipeta · 10-23-2001, 12:14 PM

Jim, I understand your reasons to keep everything in one file (I also hate programs without uninstallers that have more than 1 file). I also understand, from reading the forum\faq (don't remember where it was) that the next version will have an installer.
You can create an uninstaller (Saved on the hard disk by the installer) so that all the files can be removed easily (I didn't check out how to make these uninstallers work but I think you make a batch file and (somehow) link to it from a .reg file dedicated for uninstallers (the .reg file should be somewhere in the Windows directory, I have no idea where) and then it apears in 'Control Panel -> Add\Remove programs'. (Correct me if I am wrong)).
An uninstaller would make it more user-friendly to delete the files but it would probably be a very boring job writing it. But saving the fish locations would be a great feature (Although more fish and creatures are more urgent features).

END OF MESSAGE

Coelacanth · 10-23-2001, 08:50 PM

I figured that that would be your response, Jim. I, too, admire things that are cleanly designed. And I hate programs that scatter tons of little files all over the hard drive and add numerous keys to the registry, and then have uninstallers that fail to completely clean them all out! Thus creating another cottage industry for Norton, et al.

I didn't think my suggestion would be so bad, though. It's just one little extra file, not a whole bunch of them scattered around.

Also -- correct me if I'm wrong, but your program *already* leaves pieces scattered around. I'm talking about registry entries. Your program creates several. I assume you want people to be able to simply delete fish.scr if they want to delete the program, thereby having only one file to deal with. But doing this still leaves the registry entries.

And the result is that this causes problems for people that simply delete fish.scr and then try to install a more recent version of it later. So then Feldon's site is compelled to provide a "sachsremove.reg" file that solves that problem and gets rid of the registry entries left behind. But if a person never finds and runs the reg cleaner (and I doubt that many novice users will find it -- it even took me a while to discover it), then the entries will still be there, just taking up space in the registry and acting as potential time bombs in the event that the user decides to return to the aquarium at some point and install a later version.

That is not really all that "clean," if you ask me. In fact, I'd classify it as "clutter" at best, and a kind of "bug waiting to happen" at worst.

So if you're worried about leaving stuff lying around -- you're already doing it to some extent. An extra little "turd drop" file wouldn't add that much to it, and would probably necessitate an uninstaller program -- but in my opinion, you *already* need an uninstaller program, if in fact your goal is for the user to be able to simply, cleanly, and *completely* remove the aquarium program.

Jim Sachs · 10-23-2001, 11:14 PM

1.0 has an installer program.

Lightfeather · 10-23-2001, 11:27 PM

Hey hey hey now =P

The title of this thread is "I love this program!" Feel the love... do a little dance... uh huh. Spread it around.

^_^

Coelacanth · 10-25-2001, 11:45 PM

OK, great. So 1.0 has an installer program. Does it also have an UNinstaller program?

If so, then IMO that even further makes moot the whole argument about wanting to keep everything in one file. Things AREN'T just in one file the way it is -- you have registry entries apart from the fish.scr file -- so one small extra data file to track and remember the movements of the starfish or other animals isn't really going to make a smidgeon of difference. After all, the proper way to uninstall the screensaver is to use your uninstall program, and your uninstaller should be able to take care of cleaning up the fish.scr file, the registry entries, and one extra DAT file with no trouble.

Jim Sachs · 10-26-2001, 01:13 AM

The installer may have an uninstaller. I haven't seen it yet (it was created by Prolific).

My original plan was to just leave the Registry entry in place. It's only a few bytes, and if the user wanted to re-install the Aquarium he wouldn't have to find and re-enter his Key Code.

Coelacanth · 10-26-2001, 11:49 PM

In that case, I stand by my original criticisms and suggestions.

Every individual program adds just a "few bytes" to the registry. Before you know it, for anyone who frequently installs new things, all those bytes add up into one colossal mess, especially when the uninstallers for these programs don't do what they're supposed to. Like I said, cottage industries have cropped up around this problem, as I'm sure you're well aware.

Granted, your program adds less to the registry than others, but the fact remains that, well, the bytes remain -- unless you have an uninstaller. And one that actually *works*.

So as long as:

1. Your program necessitates an installer/uninstaller anyway

2. Leaving the registry in place could cause, and has caused in the past, problems with those that subsequently install later versions of the product

and

3. You're worried about using the scheme of writing to the registry to save the positions of the animals (which I agree is not the best plan)

then I'd still say that using a small extra text or dat file is the logical way to go.

Again, just a suggestion.

10-20-2001, 03:01 PM	#1
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	I love this program! I have been an aquarium enthusiast for some time now. When I was 14 and got my first "real" job, I worked the whole dang summer for one thing. My first 55 gallon aquarium. When I moved out of my parents home two years ago, I couldn't take my birds or my aquarium. I spent many hours off and on for the last two years looking for this very product. Although it is a salt water aquarium and not fresh, which is what I had to leave behind, it still makes me so very happy. I had actually set my heart on a salt water environment when I bought that aquarium but they were too expensive to maintain for a 14 year old, plus my parents didn't think I was up to the challenge. I have yet to find a realistic 3D Avairy (or even a single bird), so I have snuck a couple from home here to my apartment! Shhh. Don't tell =) One thing I have noticed about the program is that every time it is launched, the starfish always ends up in the same starting position. It is hard to tell if the fish do as well as I always keep them on random and, well, they're fish and they move around much more. The starfish on the other hand would be hard pressed to book it back to that same spot every time the program is launched and shut down. Just as an added touch of realism, the starfish should launch in a randomized position every time the program is activated. Just as when you go over to look at your aquarium, the contents aren't always in the same spot. Maybe the program can save the last position the animals were in on shutdown and start from those positions on program re-launch. Lightfeather Last edited by Lightfeather; 11-01-2001 at 08:45 PM.

10-20-2001, 03:44 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Re: I love this program! I am hesitant to save the last position of the starfish (or any other data) when the Aquarium is shut down. I try to keep Registry-writes to a minimum because if power happens to be interrupted during a write, it can bring down the whole system. I cringe every time I exit the Settings screen, and it seems like writing to the Registry after every session is just asking for trouble. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-20-2001, 03:52 PM	#3
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	Re: I love this program! Very true. It isn't a big deal anyway. I love this program just the way it is. ^_^ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

10-20-2001, 07:36 PM	#4
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Re: I love this program! Lightfeathers Nest, Welcome to the forum, and glad you are enjoying Jim's Screen Saver so much. Like you, I was hunting for a realistic aquarium and stumbled across Jim's work, hmmm almost a year ago now. There are many more things yet to be done on this project, and you will be glad to hear, that in the future there will also be an Avairy Screen Saver programmed by Jim. So, hang around, more supprises are in store. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

10-21-2001, 07:16 AM	#5
pipeta Royal Gramma Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 146	Re: I love this program! I agree with Lightfeathers Nest, it would be nice if the fish and starfish wouldn't start at the same place every time. Jim, if you don't want to save their location randomizing it (as Lightfeathers mentioned) would be just as good. I hope it won't take much time to implement (3 or 4 different start locations are more than enough). Thanks for your time... Coren

10-21-2001, 10:59 AM	#6
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Re: I love this program! That's probably what I'll do. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-22-2001, 07:49 PM	#7
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: I love this program! Jim, you could just use the "turd drop" method. (Pardon the expression, but that's the programmers' lingo.) It wouldn't necessarily have to save the starfish's position in the registry. It could just write to a very small, separate text or dat file stored somewhere on the hard disk. That way, at least if the system goes down during a write, at least it wasn't messing around in the registry when it happened (much more potentially dangerous). Just a thought.

10-22-2001, 10:46 PM	#8
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Re: I love this program! I like to keep everything in one file. That way if someone wants to delete it, they don't have to go searching for any little pieces all over their hard drive. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-23-2001, 12:14 PM	#9
pipeta Royal Gramma Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 146	Re: I love this program! Jim, I understand your reasons to keep everything in one file (I also hate programs without uninstallers that have more than 1 file). I also understand, from reading the forum\faq (don't remember where it was) that the next version will have an installer. You can create an uninstaller (Saved on the hard disk by the installer) so that all the files can be removed easily (I didn't check out how to make these uninstallers work but I think you make a batch file and (somehow) link to it from a .reg file dedicated for uninstallers (the .reg file should be somewhere in the Windows directory, I have no idea where) and then it apears in 'Control Panel -> Add\Remove programs'. (Correct me if I am wrong)). An uninstaller would make it more user-friendly to delete the files but it would probably be a very boring job writing it. But saving the fish locations would be a great feature (Although more fish and creatures are more urgent features). END OF MESSAGE Coren

10-23-2001, 08:50 PM	#10
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: I love this program! I figured that that would be your response, Jim. I, too, admire things that are cleanly designed. And I hate programs that scatter tons of little files all over the hard drive and add numerous keys to the registry, and then have uninstallers that fail to completely clean them all out! Thus creating another cottage industry for Norton, et al. I didn't think my suggestion would be so bad, though. It's just one little extra file, not a whole bunch of them scattered around. Also -- correct me if I'm wrong, but your program already leaves pieces scattered around. I'm talking about registry entries. Your program creates several. I assume you want people to be able to simply delete fish.scr if they want to delete the program, thereby having only one file to deal with. But doing this still leaves the registry entries. And the result is that this causes problems for people that simply delete fish.scr and then try to install a more recent version of it later. So then Feldon's site is compelled to provide a "sachsremove.reg" file that solves that problem and gets rid of the registry entries left behind. But if a person never finds and runs the reg cleaner (and I doubt that many novice users will find it -- it even took me a while to discover it), then the entries will still be there, just taking up space in the registry and acting as potential time bombs in the event that the user decides to return to the aquarium at some point and install a later version. That is not really all that "clean," if you ask me. In fact, I'd classify it as "clutter" at best, and a kind of "bug waiting to happen" at worst. So if you're worried about leaving stuff lying around -- you're already doing it to some extent. An extra little "turd drop" file wouldn't add that much to it, and would probably necessitate an uninstaller program -- but in my opinion, you already need an uninstaller program, if in fact your goal is for the user to be able to simply, cleanly, and completely remove the aquarium program.

10-23-2001, 11:14 PM	#11
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Re: I love this program! 1.0 has an installer program. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-23-2001, 11:27 PM	#12
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	Re: I love this program! Hey hey hey now =P The title of this thread is "I love this program!" Feel the love... do a little dance... uh huh. Spread it around. ^_^ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

10-25-2001, 11:45 PM	#13
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: I love this program! OK, great. So 1.0 has an installer program. Does it also have an UNinstaller program? If so, then IMO that even further makes moot the whole argument about wanting to keep everything in one file. Things AREN'T just in one file the way it is -- you have registry entries apart from the fish.scr file -- so one small extra data file to track and remember the movements of the starfish or other animals isn't really going to make a smidgeon of difference. After all, the proper way to uninstall the screensaver is to use your uninstall program, and your uninstaller should be able to take care of cleaning up the fish.scr file, the registry entries, and one extra DAT file with no trouble.

10-26-2001, 01:13 AM	#14
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,774	Re: I love this program! The installer may have an uninstaller. I haven't seen it yet (it was created by Prolific). My original plan was to just leave the Registry entry in place. It's only a few bytes, and if the user wanted to re-install the Aquarium he wouldn't have to find and re-enter his Key Code. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-26-2001, 11:49 PM	#15
Coelacanth Thought to be Extinct Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: My Watery Abode Posts: 180	Re: I love this program! In that case, I stand by my original criticisms and suggestions. Every individual program adds just a "few bytes" to the registry. Before you know it, for anyone who frequently installs new things, all those bytes add up into one colossal mess, especially when the uninstallers for these programs don't do what they're supposed to. Like I said, cottage industries have cropped up around this problem, as I'm sure you're well aware. Granted, your program adds less to the registry than others, but the fact remains that, well, the bytes remain -- unless you have an uninstaller. And one that actually works. So as long as: 1. Your program necessitates an installer/uninstaller anyway 2. Leaving the registry in place could cause, and has caused in the past, problems with those that subsequently install later versions of the product and 3. You're worried about using the scheme of writing to the registry to save the positions of the animals (which I agree is not the best plan) then I'd still say that using a small extra text or dat file is the logical way to go. Again, just a suggestion.