Ornaments (moved from other forum--Freshwater Announcement)

LizardMan · 04-04-2002, 08:38 AM

They might be tacky, but people often put ornaments in their tanks like ship wrecks, deep sea divers, marble columns from Atlantis etc...

Obviously it should be "optional" so it doesn't annoy the purists.

Tiny Turtle · 04-04-2002, 09:44 AM

From one reptile to another

, Did you notice a FAQ window popping up when you entered the forum? Take a look at question 3.9 for the official standpoint. Sorry, but Jim's pretty final on that...

Jim Sachs · 04-04-2002, 10:06 AM

Not in a reef tank. Wait for the freshwater version.

just some guy · 04-04-2002, 10:34 AM

.

feldon34 · 04-04-2002, 11:11 AM

I guess Jim has unbagged the cat.

We heard about a freshwater tank in the chat last week.

Jim, I guess I'd better start working on the freshwater website?

IXNAY · 04-04-2002, 11:59 AM

Hmmm freshwater would be cool but a terrarium would be better first

or both in one, that would be fantastic

drfish · 04-04-2002, 12:12 PM

Very cool!!! I’m not asking for details, but a few word description maybe??? A river tank? Rift lake cichlids (you don’t even have to say if it’s Tanganyika, Malawi, or Victoria)? Asian? Australian? Amazonian? The Rio Negro with lots of cardinal tetras?

You should see the smile on my face just thinking about those options...

My vote goes for cichlids!

(I think)

Seems like I should say something else... Like don't rush it, keep doing what you've been doing... But I know you will anyway.

I’ll hold back on more questions, like will it come before or after the butterflies, birds, and frogs? ...oops...

Do you want to be bugged about this yet, Jim? I guess in mentioning it you knew you would be... I think all of us here respect you enough to back off if you say no. Right?

...This is great, I feel good...

I’ll be quiet now.

James · 04-04-2002, 12:19 PM

wowu wowu wowu hold on a second
freshwater version and terrarium?
cool....but..but...
Hey guys don't forgot the Butterfly Garden
that's the one after SSA....
right Jim?

a few word description?
mmmm......still to much for Jim I guess..(no offence darfish

)
dont' worry Jim....ppl r just like that.....wanna get a step ahead....
it's normal......don't worry and don't press urself too much...

hehe

feldon34 · 04-04-2002, 12:22 PM

A freshwater tank, much like the saltwater Aquarium.

"Angelfish, black mollies, neon tetras, swordtails, algae eaters, etc., possibly frogs"

and it will possibly have a treasure chest that fills with air and opens and closes.

Of course, Jim said on the 28th that this was not for public disclosure yet. Go figure!

drfish · 04-04-2002, 12:56 PM

I didn't think a FEW word description was too much to ask... I think Jim knew he was asking for it... I was excited, but I don't think I asked anything that required anyone to apologize to Jim on my account for. Maybe I did add a few too many smilies though...

I'm sure Jim has some kind of visual image of it, I just wanted one to put in my head too. And it seems we have gotten just that.

So we're not going for realism in this one? Treasure chests and Mollies in the same tank as Neons and Angels? Still sounds cool, but I'm suddenly more interested in the Butterflies and Terrarium.

Oh well, it'll still be great.

Innovan · 04-04-2002, 01:07 PM

Fish (fresh or salt) require less animation than insects or reptiles. The largest problem is accurate interaction with the landscape.

Just swimming forward, fish need nine animation loops.

A butterfly would need nine animations flying forward, plus seperate animations for landing on different objects (twig horizontal, twig slope right, twig slope left, vertical twig), plus different animations for different flower landings (butterflies are very flower specific in which ones and how they can land). Plus preening animations and sunning animations when they're landed. Possibly even animations of them being blown away from perches by a gust of wind (a common reason they loose perch). It's a lot larger matrix of animations to make for each butterfly.

Plus to do it right, Jim would have to mimic the flight path of different species, which is another way of identifying butterflies.

When the animation loop matrix gets large, you really do want to be working with animation skeletons --which is mondo expensive and another learning curve to climb.

I'd say sticking with fish for a while longer is smart. Animation skeletons are going to be expensive in terms of software tools to make it happen. Majorly expensive.

Tiny Turtle · 04-04-2002, 01:40 PM

As this thread seems to be digressing quite a bit, I thought I'd just say that in my own personal opinion, the butterfly garden is the least interesting (still super cool, of course) of the four (five, now?) SereneScreens. For obvious reasons I'd like a (snapping-)turtle in a terrarium, but unless the others turn out surprisingly much better than the Aquarium, I reckon it'll still be my favorite after all four are completed.

feldon34 · 04-04-2002, 02:36 PM

So we're not going for realism in this one? Treasure chests and Mollies in the same tank as Neons and Angels?

The saltwater (current) Aquarium is not 100% realistic. You can mix and match fish that you would normally not be able to.

Lightfeather · 04-04-2002, 02:36 PM

Oh I am holding my breath for the Birds... oh birdies birdies... *turning blue*

Jim Sachs · 04-04-2002, 03:41 PM

I always had mollies with angel fish and tetras in real tanks. They never seemed to have any trouble together. The only anti-social freshwater fish I ever had was a red-tailed shark.

Yellow Tang · 04-05-2002, 02:38 AM

Is that really true? A freshwater version? With nice green moving plants? Just amazing, I would say. Everyday another surprise here! One question: before or after or with or without the holy 3D background?

LizardMan · 04-05-2002, 05:34 AM

My goodness, I can't believe the debate I have started, just by asking about tacky ornaments. For what it's worth, a nice vivarium with lizards would be cool, some chameleons perhaps? Good thing is that although the animations are complicated, you dont have to worry about frame rate so much!

drfish · 04-05-2002, 10:32 AM

You're right, I didn't really think about the species in the saltwater one not living together naturally. I guess that's just because I've only had "real" experience with freshwater tanks. When first mentioned, images of very geographic specific locations started popping into my head:

Rift Lakes, Tanganyika Specifically:
Lots of rocks, few plants, tons of caves for the likes of Neolamprogous Brichardi to live in. Maybe some shells for a colony of N. Brevis. A couple Juliedacromis Dickfieldi swimming upside-down underneath said rocks (they don't orient themselves to gravity, rather their surroundings). Add a few L. Leleupi, a Cyphotilapia Frontosa, and a small group of Trophues Moorii, *grin*. If you can find it, the PBS special "Jewels of the Rift" will make you want a Tanganyika SereneScreen as much as I do. Maybe it's just because I have such a thing for cichlids.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

Australian River tank:
Visible current from the right side of the monitor, bubbles traveling from right to left "down" stream. Different species of Rainbows swimming against the current and dropping back to rest behind rocks. Maybe more the idea of a river tank, not the population I described.

Amazonian Tributary:
I'm thinking the Rio Negro, Cardinal Tetras, Corydorus catfish, Discus, you name it, hundreds of beautiful fish live here! Slow flowing water, lots of plants... Maybe the occasional turtle, eh? I've got a video documentary from the discovery channel about the aquarium trade out of the Rio Negro, fascinating!!!

Asian Rice Patties:
Gouramis, Bettas, you get the idea... I don't have much experience with fish from this location.

Small African Lake/Pond:
One word: Killifish.

Yeah, umm, anyway, I'm not excited or anything... All of you fish guys out there know what I mean though, right? There's got to be at least one other cichlid lover in this forum. I'm just trying to paint some mental pictures and get the creative minds in the forum to add to them. Sorry if I'm not able to do a very good job. I apologize for my spelling too, I'm a little rusty with those scientific names... If anybody cares I can try to find some pics that convey what I'm thinking about, or at least some good pictures of the unfamiliar species I mentioned.

Jim, am I completely off?

I'm going to make myself stop writing now...

><> Dr.Fish <><

flipper · 04-05-2002, 11:30 AM

I used to have a pair of breeding cichlids. The male was absolutely irredescent (sp?) during mating.

I eventually gave up on them because I couldn't figure out how to keep the male from eating the eggs as he protected and kept the water flow going over them.

My new favs are archer fish. A tank scene with bugs on twigs above water level and archer fish shooting them down for dinner would be fantastic!

drfish · 04-05-2002, 11:49 AM

That's would be great, but serene? I'm not sure...

I love the idea of a viquarium though...

04-04-2002, 08:38 AM	#1
LizardMan Registered Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 5	Ornaments They might be tacky, but people often put ornaments in their tanks like ship wrecks, deep sea divers, marble columns from Atlantis etc... Obviously it should be "optional" so it doesn't annoy the purists.

04-04-2002, 10:06 AM	#3
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	Not in a reef tank. Wait for the freshwater version. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-04-2002, 10:34 AM	#4
just some guy Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Cakalaki Posts: 110	. . Last edited by just some guy; 05-11-2002 at 12:13 PM.

04-04-2002, 11:11 AM	#5
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	I guess Jim has unbagged the cat. We heard about a freshwater tank in the chat last week. Jim, I guess I'd better start working on the freshwater website? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-04-2002, 11:59 AM	#6
IXNAY Green Frog Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 840	Hmmm freshwater would be cool but a terrarium would be better first or both in one, that would be fantastic IXNAY dreaming of the serene terrarium - My Private Homepage -

04-04-2002, 09:44 AM	#2
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	From one reptile to another , Did you notice a FAQ window popping up when you entered the forum? Take a look at question 3.9 for the official standpoint. Sorry, but Jim's pretty final on that...

04-04-2002, 12:12 PM	#7
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,352	seriously? Very cool!!! I’m not asking for details, but a few word description maybe??? A river tank? Rift lake cichlids (you don’t even have to say if it’s Tanganyika, Malawi, or Victoria)? Asian? Australian? Amazonian? The Rio Negro with lots of cardinal tetras? You should see the smile on my face just thinking about those options... My vote goes for cichlids! (I think) Seems like I should say something else... Like don't rush it, keep doing what you've been doing... But I know you will anyway. I’ll hold back on more questions, like will it come before or after the butterflies, birds, and frogs? ...oops... Do you want to be bugged about this yet, Jim? I guess in mentioning it you knew you would be... I think all of us here respect you enough to back off if you say no. Right? ...This is great, I feel good... I’ll be quiet now.

04-04-2002, 12:19 PM	#8
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	wowu wowu wowu hold on a second freshwater version and terrarium? cool....but..but... Hey guys don't forgot the Butterfly Garden that's the one after SSA.... right Jim? a few word description? mmmm......still to much for Jim I guess..(no offence darfish ) dont' worry Jim....ppl r just like that.....wanna get a step ahead.... it's normal......don't worry and don't press urself too much... hehe James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com Last edited by James; 04-04-2002 at 12:25 PM.

04-04-2002, 12:22 PM	#9
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	A freshwater tank, much like the saltwater Aquarium. "Angelfish, black mollies, neon tetras, swordtails, algae eaters, etc., possibly frogs" and it will possibly have a treasure chest that fills with air and opens and closes. Of course, Jim said on the 28th that this was not for public disclosure yet. Go figure! "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-04-2002, 12:56 PM	#10
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,352	I didn't think a FEW word description was too much to ask... I think Jim knew he was asking for it... I was excited, but I don't think I asked anything that required anyone to apologize to Jim on my account for. Maybe I did add a few too many smilies though... I'm sure Jim has some kind of visual image of it, I just wanted one to put in my head too. And it seems we have gotten just that. So we're not going for realism in this one? Treasure chests and Mollies in the same tank as Neons and Angels? Still sounds cool, but I'm suddenly more interested in the Butterflies and Terrarium. Oh well, it'll still be great.

04-04-2002, 01:07 PM	#11
Innovan Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13	Fish (fresh or salt) require less animation than insects or reptiles. The largest problem is accurate interaction with the landscape. Just swimming forward, fish need nine animation loops. A butterfly would need nine animations flying forward, plus seperate animations for landing on different objects (twig horizontal, twig slope right, twig slope left, vertical twig), plus different animations for different flower landings (butterflies are very flower specific in which ones and how they can land). Plus preening animations and sunning animations when they're landed. Possibly even animations of them being blown away from perches by a gust of wind (a common reason they loose perch). It's a lot larger matrix of animations to make for each butterfly. Plus to do it right, Jim would have to mimic the flight path of different species, which is another way of identifying butterflies. When the animation loop matrix gets large, you really do want to be working with animation skeletons --which is mondo expensive and another learning curve to climb. I'd say sticking with fish for a while longer is smart. Animation skeletons are going to be expensive in terms of software tools to make it happen. Majorly expensive. Last edited by Innovan; 04-04-2002 at 01:09 PM.

04-04-2002, 01:40 PM	#12
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	As this thread seems to be digressing quite a bit, I thought I'd just say that in my own personal opinion, the butterfly garden is the least interesting (still super cool, of course) of the four (five, now?) SereneScreens. For obvious reasons I'd like a (snapping-)turtle in a terrarium, but unless the others turn out surprisingly much better than the Aquarium, I reckon it'll still be my favorite after all four are completed. Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history. Last edited by Tiny Turtle; 04-04-2002 at 04:41 PM.

04-04-2002, 02:36 PM	#13
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	So we're not going for realism in this one? Treasure chests and Mollies in the same tank as Neons and Angels? The saltwater (current) Aquarium is not 100% realistic. You can mix and match fish that you would normally not be able to. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

04-04-2002, 02:36 PM	#14
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	Oh I am holding my breath for the Birds... oh birdies birdies... turning blue Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

04-04-2002, 03:41 PM	#15
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,771	I always had mollies with angel fish and tetras in real tanks. They never seemed to have any trouble together. The only anti-social freshwater fish I ever had was a red-tailed shark. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

04-05-2002, 02:38 AM	#16
Yellow Tang YT Join Date: Jan 2002 Tournaments Won: 1 Location: Germany Posts: 729	Is that really true? A freshwater version? With nice green moving plants? Just amazing, I would say. Everyday another surprise here! One question: before or after or with or without the holy 3D background?

04-05-2002, 05:34 AM	#17
LizardMan Registered Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 5	My goodness, I can't believe the debate I have started, just by asking about tacky ornaments. For what it's worth, a nice vivarium with lizards would be cool, some chameleons perhaps? Good thing is that although the animations are complicated, you dont have to worry about frame rate so much!

04-05-2002, 10:32 AM	#18
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,352	habitats You're right, I didn't really think about the species in the saltwater one not living together naturally. I guess that's just because I've only had "real" experience with freshwater tanks. When first mentioned, images of very geographic specific locations started popping into my head: Rift Lakes, Tanganyika Specifically: Lots of rocks, few plants, tons of caves for the likes of Neolamprogous Brichardi to live in. Maybe some shells for a colony of N. Brevis. A couple Juliedacromis Dickfieldi swimming upside-down underneath said rocks (they don't orient themselves to gravity, rather their surroundings). Add a few L. Leleupi, a Cyphotilapia Frontosa, and a small group of Trophues Moorii, grin. If you can find it, the PBS special "Jewels of the Rift" will make you want a Tanganyika SereneScreen as much as I do. Maybe it's just because I have such a thing for cichlids. Hey, I can dream can't I? Australian River tank: Visible current from the right side of the monitor, bubbles traveling from right to left "down" stream. Different species of Rainbows swimming against the current and dropping back to rest behind rocks. Maybe more the idea of a river tank, not the population I described. Amazonian Tributary: I'm thinking the Rio Negro, Cardinal Tetras, Corydorus catfish, Discus, you name it, hundreds of beautiful fish live here! Slow flowing water, lots of plants... Maybe the occasional turtle, eh? I've got a video documentary from the discovery channel about the aquarium trade out of the Rio Negro, fascinating!!! Asian Rice Patties: Gouramis, Bettas, you get the idea... I don't have much experience with fish from this location. Small African Lake/Pond: One word: Killifish. Yeah, umm, anyway, I'm not excited or anything... All of you fish guys out there know what I mean though, right? There's got to be at least one other cichlid lover in this forum. I'm just trying to paint some mental pictures and get the creative minds in the forum to add to them. Sorry if I'm not able to do a very good job. I apologize for my spelling too, I'm a little rusty with those scientific names... If anybody cares I can try to find some pics that convey what I'm thinking about, or at least some good pictures of the unfamiliar species I mentioned. Jim, am I completely off? I'm going to make myself stop writing now... ><> Dr.Fish <>< Last edited by drfish; 04-05-2002 at 10:35 AM.

04-05-2002, 11:30 AM	#19
flipper Registered Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 60	habitats I used to have a pair of breeding cichlids. The male was absolutely irredescent (sp?) during mating. I eventually gave up on them because I couldn't figure out how to keep the male from eating the eggs as he protected and kept the water flow going over them. My new favs are archer fish. A tank scene with bugs on twigs above water level and archer fish shooting them down for dinner would be fantastic!

04-05-2002, 11:49 AM	#20
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,352	That's would be great, but serene? I'm not sure... I love the idea of a viquarium though...