Why does no one else state what I am thinking?

[Internetdomain]

I remember the first time I saw the Marine Aquarium. I was in awe as was everyone else. I greedily installed and stared, and then scavenged the internet for any at all tidbits I could find. I found this site, with the wonderful wishlist that Jim Sachs had given approval or disapproval on. So I felt re-assured that these aquaria would be included eventually. This was 12 to 18 months ago. I am still waiting.

Now I realize there are problems, unusually shaped fish create some sort of wire frame and collision problems, and that Jim is only one man with no one helping him. I also understand that he was just doing this on the side, and that DirectX has been a pain.

Now we have MA 2.0, with 5 new fish, none of which being particularly remarkable, except for maybe the Blue Ring Angel. But their wireframes look strikingly like pre-existing fish with a different paint job.

What happened to the Diamond Gobi, Panther Grouper, Scooter Blenny, Spotted Drum, Sweetlips Clownfish, Banded Coral Shrimp, Fiddler Ray, Fire Shrimp, Epaulette Shark, Giant Blue Legged Hermit Crab, Green Moray Eel, Green Sea Turtle, Harlequin-Shrimp, Horse Shoe Crab, Jellyfish, Leafy Sea Dragon, Lobster, Octopi, and countless others?

Some of the ones I have mentioned were stated by Jim that they will be included, but I have noticed this site no longer states what may or may not be approved by Jim anymore. With the exception of the Lionfish, no distinct fish ever approved has been released. Instead, we have freshwater aquaria, and terrarium possibilities...

The real difficulty in keeping any kind of a tank is whether it is Marine, and especially if it is invertibrate, or illegal in the case of the Leafy Sea Dragon, or too large such as a Moray Eel, Octopus or any ray. What happened to glass tapping and feeding?

What I'm saying is how dissappointed I am waiting all this time to never get the promises fulfilled. I want unusual fish, ones that I cant keep at home. If Jim added 20 more fish for $1, but were different coloured versions of the existing fish, I would not be interested. There are more than enough standard looking fish. Please let me know that I'm not alone in this...

[GreenHsiF]

I think the screensaver looks great.I think everybody would like to see special creatures put in the screensaver,I know I would.I also hope they put alot of fish from the wishlist on too.There is alot of cool ones on there.Everything on this screensaver is awesome what they have done so far.Can't wait to see what they do next.

[Socrates]

I voted #2, but I am really really trying to be a good boy and show patience.

Jim is just one guy, and there are bigger priorities, Prolific has lifeglobe now too, so between it all I think I will get enough new stuff trickling in to keep me going. But what I really want is the 3d Background and the anemone.

[Ralph]

I also voted #2 as it seems more politically correct. But, I too am disapointed with the pace that all those early promises are being delivered.
Since Prolific has entered the scene Jim's art and design seems to have taken a back seat in favour of making yet another versions to sell. Too bad.....

[Jim Sachs]

I voted #3. Can't wait to see the octopus!

[GMarowski]

Come on guys, chill out. True, Jim did say this and that were on the way. He has never committed to a schedule. (And I admire that!). And this is a business, as well as a labor of love. Personally if Jim came back and said. "Sorry guys, that's all there will ever be, I'm done". I'd still say "Thank you Jim, I got more than my $20 worth". And would continue to enjoy the screensaver until it would no longer run on my system.

The point I'm trying to make is:

1. Try putting out a product, any product. and listen to the whiners complain about your schedule, your quality, and why there hasn't been an update by a time THEY decide is appropriate.

2. You paid your money and got a product. If you read your users agreeement, I think you'll see that for the most part that's all you're intitled to. That and free upgrades in the future.

3. The wishlist is just that, a wishlist. It's not a promise of anything. These are all things Jim himself would like to see, and a forum for us to express our likes and dislikes. I see no contract signed in blood that entitles me to demand more than I have received thus far.

Do I seem a little harsh?. I appologize. I work with software all day and hear the same complaints. But I think we should all stand back a bit, (look at the screen saver), and thank Jim for the marvelous work he has given us, (at a nominal cost), and just be thankful for once. Expect no more and you will never be disappointed.

Let us not forget where this came from. It came from the imagination and talent of one man. (I prefer to leave Prolific out of it for now, although we should be thankful that they have helped Jim out a little). We do not own him or any right to his work, which he has agreed to allow us to use. Thank you Jim. Thank you very much.

Flame off...

[Internetdomain]

I was and am grateful for the wonderful screensaver. I am not grateful for wasting patience and entertaining false hopes. The wishlist specifically stated it was what Jim had approved to be in the screensaver in a future revision, not what he would like to see. If he doesnt wish to stick to a timetable, fine. But I only live 100 years, and I'm not sure that will be enough. If Jim were to say, "This is all there will ever be and there is no more.", that would be fine and I wouldnt begrudge him. But I would know that I neednt hold out fruitless hopes that I would get my fire shrimp. You must have the person that selected choice 1.

With all the new non-MA software coming out, I have ultimately concluded that there will be no unusual aquaria, features, or backgrounds, save of course for the Lionfish. So be it.

[Digital Lungfish]

I was and am grateful for the wonderful screensaver. I am not grateful for wasting patience and entertaining false hopes. The wishlist specifically stated it was what Jim had approved to be in the screensaver in a future revision, not what he would like to see. If he doesnt wish to stick to a timetable, fine. But I only live 100 years, and I'm not sure that will be enough. If Jim were to say, "This is all there will ever be and there is no more.", that would be fine and I wouldnt begrudge him. But I would know that I neednt hold out fruitless hopes that I would get my fire shrimp. You must have the person that selected choice 1.

<snip>

[feldon34]

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
Why does no one else state what I am thinking?

They have. We even had to ask one or two to leave because they felt the need to get abusive. I'm glad you have kept calm and we can have productive conversation.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
I remember the first time I saw the Marine Aquarium. I was in awe as was everyone else. I greedily installed and stared, and then scavenged the internet for any and all tidbits I could find. I found this site, with the wonderful wishlist that Jim Sachs had given approval or disapproval on. So I felt re-assured that these aquaria would be included eventually. This was 12 to 18 months ago. I am still waiting.

He gave hints as to what he might or might not add in the future. I based my green checks and red X's from that info. There was never any timetable given or whether any/all of those fish would EVER be done, only that, given the right circumstances and time, certain ones were likely, certain ones were not. I don't think a guarantee was given that we would get 30 or 40 fish or some other arbitrary number.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
but I have noticed this site no longer states what may or may not be approved by Jim anymore.

Many of the fish that Jim gave a Thumbs Down to were because of how it would look at 640x480 on some PCs. Now that the average resolution is 800x600 or 1024x768, this concern diminishes. Also there are others contributing fish now, so these icons no longer had much value.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
Now we have MA 2.0, with 5 new fish, none of which being particularly remarkable, except for maybe the Blue Ring Angel. But their wireframes look strikingly like pre-existing fish with a different paint job.

When we started out, we paid $20 and got 7 fish, now we're up to 26 fish (I'll agree the 5 new fish each have some limitations) and a starfish and a brand new control panel which took months to create in and of itself. I wouldn't agree that Ken's 5 new fish are simply recycled.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
Now I realize there are problems, unusually shaped fish create some sort of wire frame and collision problems, and that Jim is only one man with no one helping him.

To do another fish within the 142 vertex model takes a day or two. To create a new fish or creature with a different number of vertices and all the collision-detection can take months because everything is hard-coded.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
What happened to the Diamond Gobi, Panther Grouper,

The time simply has not become available. Jim stated a while back that ~20 regular fish was a good stopping point before getting started on other projects. I don't think Jim planned to create free fish forever.

Scooter Blenny,

I don't know that Jim has any plans for this.

Spotted Drum,

Not an easy fish to add due to the shape/balance of the fish.

Sweetlips Clownfish,

Not a difficult addition. Who knows. I know I'd like to see real anemones before more Clownfishes are added, but that's just my opinion.

Banded Coral Shrimp,

I think this will be the first special creature added.

Fiddler Ray, Fire Shrimp, Epaulette Shark, Giant Blue Legged Hermit Crab, Green Moray Eel, Green Sea Turtle, Harlequin-Shrimp, Horse Shoe Crab,

Nothing in this list has been on Jim's "yes" list to my knowledge.

Leafy Sea Dragon, Lobster,

Sea Horses, Yes. Leafy Sea Dragon? I haven't heard any confirmation yet. Looks like an animation nightmare to me.

Jellyfish, Octopi,

Nobody has accurately modeled and rendered either of these in real-time on any computer to-date. So if Jim gets these working and looking realistic, it will be a first! I hope you aren't wanting that pioneering effort for free.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
Some of the ones I have mentioned were stated by Jim that they will be included

Included? No. Except for the forthcoming 3D background and any 'regular' fish that Jim might do some time in the future, I would consider the $20 spent.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
What I'm saying is how dissappointed I am waiting all this time to never get the promises fulfilled.

Promises? I am always amazed when Jim's comments as to what might be added and/or available for purchase or as a future upgrade turns into "Where's the Octopus and 45 other fish I'm supposed to get for free?"

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
I want unusual fish, ones that I can't keep at home.

I appreciate your interest in the Aquarium and reefkeeping, however the target audience of the Aquarium is people who want trouble-free beautiful moving art on their screen. The Aquarium has found an audience in Aquarium enthusiasts, but if Jim had to subsist on that business alone, he'd starve.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
The real difficulty in keeping any kind of a tank is whether it is Marine, and especially if it is invertibrate, or illegal in the case of the Leafy Sea Dragon, or too large such as a Moray Eel, Octopus or any ray.

It is great that you are so interested in Saltwater fishes and the complex relationships and interactions between species and the difficulty in keeping these fish at home.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
What happened to glass tapping and feeding?

It's all about time. Jim spent months trying to decipher Prolific's rewritten Marine Aquarium 2 to no success. After finding out some more information for myself, I don't blame Jim one bit for his viewpoint on that subject. 1,700 undocumented C++ files is not something I would foist upon anyone.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
If Jim added 20 more fish for $1, but were different coloured versions of the existing fish, I would not be interested.

Good, because Jim will never do that and I don't think he plans to approve others doing the same thing. The only fish we'll see in the Marine Aquarium are ones that exist in real-life.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
There are more than enough standard looking fish.

You're welcome to have this opinion, and I am sure it is one shared by others on this forum. The public, however, would love to have new fish.

Originally posted by Ralph:
Since Prolific has entered the scene Jim's art and design seems to have taken a back seat in favour of making yet another versions to sell. Too bad

Being unable to get the Saltwater Aquarium into major retailers likeBest Buy, Circuit City, Target, Wal-Mart, etc. was severely affecting Jim's chances of having enough money to produce his films. Computer software is very time-based. How many games continue to sell well for years even when newer games and newer hardware have come out?

I am not sure what you mean by "yet another version[s] to sell." since Jim has only produced one Aquarium so far. Maybe you are thinking of the different versions of the Aquarium which have been produced by Prolific in parallel with Jim working on the Freshwater?

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
The wishlist specifically stated it was what Jim had approved to be in the screensaver in a future revision, not what he would like to see.

Have you got a screen snapshot or other evidence of this "quote"?

For a long time, the Wishlist had these words at the top:
"Fish/Inverts with a * are *likely* to appear in future versions of the Aquarium"

and later:
"Fish and Creatures marked with a green V will very likely be seen in a future version of the Aquarium."

It's a LONG WAY from "likely" to "Jim had approved".

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
If he doesnt wish to stick to a timetable, fine. But I only live 100 years, and I'm not sure that will be enough. If Jim were to say, "This is all there will ever be and there is no more.", that would be fine and I wouldnt begrudge him.

The Wishlist is not an official list. I am not sure why you think it is! This is the Inside: SereneScreen fan site which I created and operate. I am not an employee of Jim and this site is fairly independant in its reporting. The Wishlist was created before Jim even knew there WAS a fan site (I had ~20 pictures on the list when I first contacted him).

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
But I would know that I neednt hold out fruitless hopes that I would get my fire shrimp.

You're welcome to hope for a "fire shrimp". I've never heard Jim say anything about doing one.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
You must have the person that selected choice 1.

I don't typically vote on these things.

Originally posted by Internetdomain:
With all the new non-MA software coming out, I have ultimately concluded that there will be no unusual aquaria, features, or backgrounds, save of course for the Lionfish. So be it.

It's certainly your choice to react negatively to what Prolific Publishing, publisher of SereneScreen Aquarium and many of their own products does. I am not sure what this has to do with the work of Jim Sachs.

I don't think "unusual aquaria" has ever been a priority for Jim Sachs or anyone at Prolific Publishing. As for features, the Settings panel in MA2 has delivered on many requests people have made over the years for features they'd like added.

[Jim Sachs]

That has to be the record for the longest post.

[camorgan]

And a record for one of the most worthwhile.

[GMarowski]

Internetdomain,

No I actually voted for #2. Yes I'm satisfied with where the SS is right now, but like everyone else I would like to see more.

I just don't feel I have the right to complain because Jim's talent and inspiration doesn't meet my (or even his) timetable. He said he would do it, maybe he will, maybe he will never get around to it. I personally think he will, as time, talent and inspiration dictate, not by whatever I dictate.

Sure I'd like to see the wishlist completed. Actually I wanted it done last week. But I'm not going to complain about it. Why should I? There are enough people riding Jim's case about it. And you know what, the only one that really matters is Jim.

I don't think he designed this screensaver just for me ( hey, but if you did Jim, THANKS!), he did it for the masses, and probably more importantly, for himself. He has made his own committments, promises and such. And I have no doubt that he will complete it. But that's up to him. I doubt my whining will speed things up. And because I don't possess the artistic talent Jim does, I cannot offer my services in any capacity (other than loyal fan and promoter) to help him out.

So relax. Things have a way of working out when you least expect it.

Thanks Feldon27 for the itemized list. Well worth reading from time to time. Thanks also for this forum.

BTW Internetdomain, I'm not picking on you directly, I agree with you in principle, but am trying to help others relize that agreeing that a thing should be done, is not a promise that a thing WILL be done, such as the wishlist.

[Internetdomain]

I would like everyone here to understand that my post has nothing to do with trying to speed things up or bring about change. I have seen snippets here and there in the forum that touch on some of the things I have mentioned, but nothing so bold. I felt the need to see how others felt upon direct reflection of my observations. I am glad that Feldon didnt quash me, or I would feel truely oppressed. I must admit that I am particular, which I why I feel so strongly about the only screensaver that has a chance of making me forget it's a monitor. That's the root of my dissappointment, not that it's Jim's job to take care of my needs, but that the only avenue is untravelable. The ISS is another highhanded dream of mine, but yet ready to be mothballed and delayed at any moment. I just get upset when the only chance was never there to begin with. Thanks for your comments.

[Internetdomain]

Originally posted by feldon27


When we started out, we paid $20 and got 7 fish, now we're up to 26 fish (I'll agree the 5 new fish each have some limitations) and a starfish and a brand new control panel which took months to create in and of itself. I wouldn't agree that Ken's 5 new fish are simply recycled.


To do another fish within the 142 vertex model takes a day or two. To create a new fish or creature with a different number of vertices and all the collision-detection can take months because everything is hard-coded.

Just so you know, I would pay $20 to singly add any one of these features to the aquarium.

1/ Any Ray
2/ Any Octopus
3/ Any Eel
4/ Any Shrimp
5/ Feeding

I realize I dont represent the target audience. Such is the story of my life.

[Jim Sachs]

The plan is to put several of those critters into each Creature Pak, which should sell for something like $10.

[GreenHsiF]

Hey Jim you should make one fish a month and have everybody be able to vote for the one they would like.So then it might keep some people happy to see something new every month until the biger things come out.

[feldon34]

2 days a month to do something that the vast majority won't even notice.

[Digital Lungfish]

I am glad that Feldon didnt quash me, or I would feel truely oppressed.

He did quite the contrary, he actually squashed me for once. Even though my comment wasn't mean't to exude any level of sarcasm, I guess it could have been taken that way. Anyway, no harm, no foul.