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Old 06-06-2001, 03:20 PM   #1
nicksteel
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Random Fish Replacement

I have noted other messages on this subject, but would like to add my voice to those wishing that a new fish appear when one leaves the screen. It seems a shame to be bound to the 7 same random fish during the entire session. I am new to Marine Aquarium and happy to say that this is the only facet I see that could use improvement.
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Old 06-06-2001, 06:46 PM   #2
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

I agree having all the same fish for the entire session (if it is a long one) is a bit restrictive. But having fish change every time they leave the screen, in my opionion, would look weird!

I have an alternative suggestion.

Maybe it would be possible to include a "refresh random fish every n minutes" option, where you set the number of minutes in the settings. When it gets to the set time, the aquarium fades out, the fish are replaced, and the new aquarium fades back in.

What do you think ?
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Old 06-06-2001, 08:14 PM   #3
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

The Aquarium would have to completely stop, reload, and start again.

Many video cards crash the PC if you just spontaneously destroy and create 3D objects. This is from Jim, by the way, when someone asked about this months ago.
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Old 06-07-2001, 01:15 AM   #4
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

There was a problem replacing the fish as they swam off screen. But there is no problem replacing them all spontaeneously. You can do that now by pressing the spacebar twice. If you have the fish set to random.

So I think the question is, can there be an option to do this automatticaly after a set number of minutes?
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Old 06-07-2001, 10:32 AM   #5
Jim Sachs
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

When you press the spacebar to enter the Settings screen and change the fish, all objects are released (along with their associated memory). When you exit back to the program, all objects are reloaded from the hard drive. The user may have changed some or all of the fish, and this "total reset" is the only way I've found to eliminate the video ram fragmentation which was causing lockups.

Also, you'll notice that when a fish swims off the edge of the screen, it immediately turns around and swims back into view. I think it would look funny if a different fish just happened to be waiting in the wings to take it's place.
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Old 06-07-2001, 11:41 AM   #6
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

So a hard reset with an ugly 2-4 seconds of blackness? Maybe if both lights faded to black first. A "Cycle the fish every [___] minutes."

Hmm, at first I resisted the idea but it's a bit interesting now.
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:17 PM   #7
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

Pretty soon there will have to be a manual shipped with the screensaver. Options, options, and more options.
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Old 06-07-2001, 01:28 PM   #8
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

markm,

I don't think this really holds up to inspection.

To post this message, you had to :

Press the start button on the PC and wait for Windows to start
Click on Start, programs, internet explorer
In the address line type www.serenescreen.com
Press enter
Click on Fan site, Forums, Random Fish Replacement
Scroll down to the end of the message, click reply
Choose various options (such as the idea icon)
Type the message, and post it.

In order to use a computer you have to do stuff.
I think it would be wrong to limit the program to the lowest level of PC literacy.

You know, at the moment, Windows has a menu, and the Screensaver doesn't even have that.

So I don't think the screensaver is that complicated, and a few more options won't make it any more complicated than what you have had to do to post your reply......

Regards, Tim4Web
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Old 06-07-2001, 07:53 PM   #9
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

tim4web, Jim will probably tell you the same thing he did. Added complication is a bad thing for the minimal returns for 1% of us.
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Old 06-07-2001, 11:44 PM   #10
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

There could be an "Advanced" button or tab. All the basic elements displayed on the first "tab/menu" and then extra features on the next "tab/menu" for people with advanced cards could "tweak" and get more fish, different backgrounds, panning, zooming, etc..

I know, I am always tweaking my system as much as possible. Why? Because I can!
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Old 06-08-2001, 12:44 AM   #11
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

There's some interesting points developing here.

Point 1
Morgan - Are those in the forum representing the 1 percenters out there that are PC geeky ?
I think the proportion of PC users that fall into that category is much higher. In fact I'd say there are two types of users: those that buy PCs to "do stuff" and those that buy PCs to "do stuff for them". The second group don't use their PCs very much in the long term, as they quickly get dissillusioned.Therefore they don't buy much extra software in the long term either. That's not to say they wouldn't buy the Aquarium before the novelty of PC ownership wears off though. That leaves your PC geeky types that like to just "do stuff" because it's there - very geeky, but I think they represent a substantial amount of PC users as the other group keep giving up, to be replaced by next years Christmas Shoppers.

Point 2
Shinsa - the advanced tab - that seems like a really good idea to me, in fact I'd pay extra for it (and I've thought hard about it before saying that!) I think there is a separate market for the two groups of users mentioned above, whereas the original "basic" and "deluxe" versions were targetted at the same people - i.e. the current "basic" version really just entices you to upgrade to more of the same thing (so who wouldn't want it?), whereas a "deluxe" versus "advanced" could be aimed at different user types - Christmas Shoppers versus geeks ! And, as the French would say, Vive La Difference !
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Old 06-08-2001, 02:49 PM   #12
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

I see Jim's point though, Tim4web. The more complicated it gets, people will get confused, and of course demand support for it. They did pay for it after all.
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Old 06-08-2001, 04:26 PM   #13
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

And don't forget the 4 million people who want support and didn't pay.
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Old 06-09-2001, 03:58 AM   #14
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

"So a hard reset with an ugly 2-4 seconds of blackness? Maybe if both lights faded to black first. A "Cycle the fish every [___] minutes.""

Morgan,

A "Cycle the fish every [___] minutes." setting sounds like a step in the right direction, however, I see a few possible issues which might pop up in the 2-4 seconds of blackness.

1) Jim has designed the aquarium lights so that both foreground and background lights cannot be turned down to their lowest setting at the same time. This means you would still be able to see either foreground or background elements pop out of sight during the time it takes to load the new fish and that probably wouldn't look quite right.

2) Since Jim wants to avoid the obvious headaches involved with trying to destroy and recreate 3D objects on the fly, he then has to force the screen saver to kick out of Direct3D into a 2D windowed mode (like it does now when you access the Aquarium Settings). The problem with this is that when you switch to this 2D mode, you'll get the window border around the screensaver. Also, as you switch back to Direct3D with the new fish settings, your going to not only see the window border pop out of site, but you're also going to get the usual video "sync" as it kicks back into Direct3D.

Personally, if Jim could actually fade out the aquairum and have it so that we would never see any of these changes occur during the transition, then that's the "in an ideal world" situation and I would be all for it. I'm just not so sure there's an easy way around those problems though, but I could be wrong and only Jim knows for sure.

However, if he COULD fade it out and load the new fish without any noticable 3D to 2D and back to 3D artifacts, then I would probably ask for something more interesting to fill in that time. Instead of fading lights out and back in again, how about loading in some randomly selected "fish facts" images of one of the fish from the aquarium? A real picture of the fish in it's native surrounds and a few cool facts next to it so the aquarium users can actually learn a few things about the fish in Jim's aquarium without having to dig around for the info. Just a thought...

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Old 06-09-2001, 04:34 AM   #15
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

Hmm..

The option we are talking about is basically stopping the screensaver and restarting it. I suppose it doesn't have to be just the aquarium. Imagine in a year or so's time, going into your local computer store, and seeing the aquarium running, then it fades out, an advert for the butterfly screensaver appears, and then the butterfly screensaver fades in etc.

Anyway, for home use, I wouldn't want pictures or text between saver re-loads if it could happen quick enough, and on my lowly PII with an 8MB graphics card, it only takes two seconds to start, but your milage may vary.
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Old 06-09-2001, 07:09 AM   #16
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

Fish facts would be cool, but think of the file size. And if he did that, what would I do with my website?

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Old 06-09-2001, 07:50 AM   #17
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RE: Random Fish Replacement

If this scheme is every implemented, I can see some one proposing to cycle only certain fish (some fish may be thought of as ugly).

It seems to me that this whole subject was brought on by the fact that there are getting to be so many great looking fish that we want to see them come on the screen at some point without having to change the settings. Is there some other way of cycling fish?

This may be a dumb question, but I'm no programmer. Jim indicated that the reason for windowing when changing fish was because of video RAM fragmentation when changing fish... Since the program is less than one meg, I'm thinking that the memory consumed by each fish is small (50K?).

Why not just load every fish into video ram?

I hate to extend this subject any further. I'm sure Jim is eager to wrap up this project and move on to the next. There will always be cool items to be added, just look at the wish list, but I think at some point you need to stop development and produce.

I think Jim has been very patient and understanding with requests and has even implemented additional features before completing version 1 (DX . I will always take the additional features, but the simple screensaver that he started with is evolving closer into an application. There are already numerous people launching it as an executable instead of just a screensaver. I think the point of support is valid.
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Old 06-09-2001, 11:37 AM   #18
Jim Sachs
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Re: RE: Random Fish Replacement

"Why not just load every fish into video ram?"

The majority of cards out there are still ATI Rage Pro or Rage IIc cards. They cannot handle even 7 fish without switching down to 800x600 mode.
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Old 06-09-2001, 11:07 PM   #19
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Re: RE: Random Fish Replacement

"I think at some point you need to stop development and produce."

Producing results (i.e. programming, 3D modeling, audio, AI, animation, etc.) IS software development and this also includes brainstorming, which is what we do here. If Jim were to stop development, then he wouldn't be producing results.

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Old 06-09-2001, 11:19 PM   #20
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Re: Random Fish Replacement

markm is saying that we don't have time to add any more of these features right now if Jim is going to stay on schedule with all the other things on Jim's planned wishlist.
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