Home Register Arcade Gallery Chatroom Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Log In
Go Back   Inside: SereneScreen Fan Forum > SereneScreen Products > Marine Aquarium 3 for Windows
Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2009, 12:32 PM   #1
Dale
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
My personal opinion - it's time.

I appreciate that it has been unexpectedly difficult to accomplish the major improvements in fish movement. We've almost all been patient, and we're quite willing to wait longer while Jim gets this done to his satisfaction - and then for the optional Creature Packs.

...however, Beta 10d was released over 6 months ago. No visible progress since then.

That's a long time for a single Beta release.

Personal opinion: it's time for another Beta release.

Assuming that there's nothing to release in terms of fish movements, there are still a lot of bugs and product features that have been covered in this forum - that could be fixed. Yeah, I know it would take time away from the work on "New realistic fish behavior, including schooling, chasing, and pecking at corals."

A partial list of things that (in my opinion) should be done before waiting another 6 months:

o Bug fixes and feature improvements that have already been discussed here.

o (quote) "Automatic lights. There will soon be a greatly expanded interface for customizing the background colors"

o The crystal improvements that have been promised.

o The various documentation, help-file, and UI improvements that have already been "promised" here.

o Perhaps even the starfish...

Now, I'm rather sure that Jim would rather keep focused on the realistic fish behavior. And I'm sure that expressing my personal opinion will draw some angry responses.

So, a question - if 6 months between Beta releases isn't very long, then how long in your opinion would be "too long"?
Dale is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 01:02 PM   #2
harris
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Missouri
Posts: 120
This is one of those posts I generally would not touch with a ten foot pole.

However...I will say that if there was a "TEAM" working on MA3 I would also be impatient. Since Jim is the sole designer and engineer, a longer development time is to be expected. How long is not for me to say.
harris is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:37 PM   #3
Yodelking
yodeler
 
Yodelking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
1 Highscore

Location: Staffanstorp, Sweden
Posts: 294
Arghh, this is a tough one...
Let's see... documents, helpfiles, crystal, User interface, automatic lights, or new fish models and behaviour?

hmm...

OK, I will never read documents or helpfiles, I don't use the crystal, I hardly ever change settings...

I'd have to chose new fish models and behaviour...
Yodelking - För god att kolsyra!
Yodelking is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:54 PM   #4
henemly
asdf
 
henemly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Hiko, CommieFagnia
Posts: 275
2nd vote here for new crystal stuff.
http://www.coltrain.byethost8.com
henemly is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 04:22 PM   #5
Nicki
Sugar Plum Fairy
 
Nicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,267
It all depends on the way the programmer ( ie Sachsu-san ) works . Does he work on one issue at a time exclusively and then save his progress as a releasable beta , or does he hop about from one thing to another as the inspiration strikes ? From my own very limited programming experience I would say that I tended towards the latter . And then , Jim is an artist as well as a programmer which I'm sure influences his decisions as to when to release new work .

Just my two cents , not having a go at you Dale . You sometimes say the things that many of us have been thinking . << Though I'm taking the 5th as to whether this is one of those times >>
Run you clever boy. And remember...
Nicki is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 09:05 PM   #6
Jim Sachs
Developer
 
Jim Sachs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,624
To paraphrase Thomas Edison - Though I haven't found algorithms for the fish movement or collision avoidance, I have found a thousand things that DON'T work. If I divert my attention now, I'll quickly forget what I've already tried.
Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium
Jim Sachs is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 11:22 PM   #7
celine
Special Assistant
 
celine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005

Location: back to home.......
Posts: 1,275
As Confucius said :haste brings no success. Be patient,one day Jim would make you thrill all day long..............
Kanebo--woman's first choice.
celine is offline  
Old 12-08-2009, 11:50 PM   #8
Ralph
Retired
 
Ralph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
1 Highscore

Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca
Posts: 2,321
So long as you keep finding new ideas that don't work keep at it, when you run out of ideas that don't work and still have not found the magic combination then it is time to move on to other parts.
Ralph is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:35 AM   #9
cjmaddy
Registered
 
cjmaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001

Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 7,858
If memory serves, that's usually predicted to be next October....

Jim, have you considered, that if/when you next release an update, - in the blink of an eye, the first of many will immediately start saying, 'I can't wait for the next....'
The ironic thing being, that there is nothing in this world more certain, than 'wait' is exactly what they will HAVE to do!
cjmaddy is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 09:43 AM   #10
Jim Sachs
Developer
 
Jim Sachs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,624
Oh, yes - I've certainly noticed that. Even when the updates are only a day apart!

I've had a lot of other stuff going on lately which has further slowed progress and made it harder to concentrate. Sometimes real life gets in the way of writing computer programs.

All I can suggest is for everyone to go and spend some time with their families, and check back every once in a while to see if there are any MA3 updates.
Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium
Jim Sachs is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #11
harris
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Missouri
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
"...All I can suggest is for everyone to go and spend some time with their families..."  
Jim - make sure you heed your own advice, especially during this time of year.
harris is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:24 AM   #12
Dale
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
Oh, yes - I've certainly noticed that. Even when the updates are only a day apart!

I've had a lot of other stuff going on lately which has further slowed progress and made it harder to concentrate. Sometimes real life gets in the way of writing computer programs.

All I can suggest is for everyone to go and spend some time with their families, ...  
Fair enough, on all counts. And I certainly didn't want to suggest something that would slow down the development timeline.

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
.... and check back every once in a while to see if there are any MA3 updates.  
That would be MA3 Beta updates.
Dale is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:35 PM   #13
feldon34
Forum Administrator
 
feldon34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 10,893
All software is Beta software. Discuss.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
feldon34 is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 04:32 PM   #14
Dale
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
Originally posted by feldon33:
All software is Beta software. Discuss.  
Agreed (and off-topic, so thanks for doing that).

Discussion:

What percentage of software being sold today has BETA as part of its official name? (quoting: Marine Aquarium 3 BETA - Windows )

If you purchased something 10 months ago, with the FAQ reading as follows, what would have been your expectation of the meaning of "soon"?

Originally posted by serenescreen web site:

What's coming soon:

* Automatic lights. There will soon be a greatly expanded interface for customizing the background colors.
* New realistic fish behavior, including schooling, chasing, and pecking at corals.

Once these features are in place, the stage will be set for many exciting additions. Optional Creature Packs will utilize the large environment as a playground for a wide array of different fish and invertabrates.  
Please believe that I'm not criticizing the February decision to start selling MA3 Beta - or the decision to honestly call it Beta.

I'm just asserting that, in my opinion, calling something BETA (whether or not it is being sold) -- and then stating what is coming soon -- sets certain expectations as to when incremental improvements will be made. Those expectations are fuzzy, of course - but (in my opinion) a general consensus would be something shorter than 6 months.
Dale is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:02 PM   #15
Ralph
Retired
 
Ralph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
1 Highscore

Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca
Posts: 2,321
Originally posted by Dale:
Discussion:
What percentage of software being sold today has BETA as part of its official name? (quoting: Marine Aquarium 3 BETA - Windows )  
Possibly the only honest listing one can find. Until it is abandoned pretty well all software is beta, whether included in the name or not. It is rare software that will not have numerous updates within its life cycle.
To me using the term BETA in the title means this program is under active development so stay tuned. If Jim could turn the clock back 6 months he may well have taken the "beta" out of the title. It has proven more time consuming / difficult than initially anticipated but it has not been abandoned so a "BETA" it still is.
Ralph is offline  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:46 PM   #16
Dale
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
Originally posted by Ralph:
Possibly the only honest listing one can find.

...
To me using the term BETA in the title means this program is under active development so stay tuned...
 
I absolutely agree that the name is honest, and may as you say be the only honest name that can be found.

When I buy (non-Beta) software, my only real expectations are that there will be future updates, and that I will probably be charged for some of them (called "new versions with added features")

My point was:

A. There's not much software named "Beta" that is not free. Selling MA3 Beta sets higher expectations than a free Beta.

B. Clearly advertising major feature additions "coming soon" sets higher expectations than not saying when any updates are coming.

Summary: The combination of paid Beta and major features coming soon sets even higher expectations.
Dale is offline  
Old 12-10-2009, 03:58 PM   #17
feldon34
Forum Administrator
 
feldon34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 10,893
Easy fix: Stop calling it Beta.

There are no known significant bugs. Now whether you feel that it has the features you expect or not is irrelevant.

Apple iMovie 08 removed a significant amount of features found in iMovie 07. The latest Final Cut Express removed significant features from previous versions of Final Cut Express.

So I'll advise Jim to simply remove the Beta tag. When he does an update, it will be 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5 or whatever.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
feldon34 is offline  
Old 12-10-2009, 07:14 PM   #18
Dale
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Western Missouri
Posts: 960
Originally posted by feldon33:
Easy fix: Stop calling it Beta.

There are no known significant bugs. Now whether you feel that it has the features you expect or not is irrelevant.
...
So I'll advise Jim to simply remove the Beta tag. When he does an update, it will be 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5 or whatever.  
That works for me (if it's acceptable to Jim, of course).
Dale is offline  
Old 12-11-2009, 01:45 AM   #19
Jim Sachs
Developer
 
Jim Sachs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 9,624
I'll consider it.
Jim Sachs
Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium
Jim Sachs is offline  
Old 12-11-2009, 03:54 AM   #20
cjmaddy
Registered
 
cjmaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001

Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 7,858
Can we draw a line under all this nonsense now, and let everyone get back to doing things that are more productive?
cjmaddy is offline  
Closed Thread
Go Back   Inside: SereneScreen Fan Forum > SereneScreen Products > Marine Aquarium 3 for Windows



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.