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Old 03-06-2003, 11:22 AM   #1
feldon34
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This is the discussion thread for the
SereneScreen Marine Aquarium 2.0 announcement.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

Last edited by feldon34; 03-06-2003 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 03-06-2003, 12:12 PM   #2
Jim Sachs
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5 of the fish in the 2.0 version of the Aquarium were created by Prolific. We have reached an understanding that the artist will be listed for each fish in the "Fish-picker" section of the Settings screen. That way, if you see something that doesn't quite look like my work, you will see who the artist was. Any fish done by Prolific must first be approved by me, but the chances are I would have done them differently.
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:20 PM   #3
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That's great! When will it be available?
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:23 PM   #4
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2-3 weeks hopefully.
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:30 PM   #5
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Thumbs Down V2

Great News this one and such a short time after the MAT.

Is this version 2 going to be free (for the ones having bought the .99? version) or how much will we be charged for this upgrade?

Also will we have the same problem (frame rate reduced by 50%) as in the MAT?

(curious to see the emperator angel swim arount the tank!)



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Old 03-06-2003, 02:41 PM   #6
Digital Lungfish
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Any fish done by Prolific must first be approved by me, but the chances are I would have done them differently.
Well, I'll give you this Jim, you're 100% honest about how these new "non-Jim" fish make you feel.
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:43 PM   #7
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I wonder what happened to only Jim doing the fish?
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:51 PM   #8
feldon34
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Well, look at that wall calendar.

No updates to the Marine Aquarium in 1 year and 2 weeks.

And being extremely optimistic, I don't think Jim will be doing more fish for the Marine Aquarium until 2004.

As long as he has approval on the fish, why not? I hope he is being stringent about the quality though. It's hard to tell from the snapshots. As soon as I get a test version, I will post a scathingly-honest review.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:01 PM   #9
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Don't get me wrong, I think everyone is excited about the new version plus the five new fish, me for one. Its been along time since anything really new and now we got MAT, the goldfish, and now version 2.0 of MA. Its really been a treat. It seems like I've read before that it only takes a day to do a fish, why would it be not until 2004 for Jim to make any new fish? I've always considered Jim an artist first, programmer second, now we have some programmer at prolific designing fish. It seems in the past Jim was agaisnt anyone else making fish for him and now this. I guess I was just alittle shocked to hear he wasn't making the fish.

Kindof on a side note, is this screensaver project that Jim started taking longer than he expected? I know there was talks of a butterfly and a bird screensaver but if it takes as long to do those as it did to do this MA and freshwater screensaver he might not never get to his movie.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:19 PM   #10
Jim Sachs
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Ken is an artist at Prolific, not a programmer.

Yes, the screensavers are taking much longer than I had hoped.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:23 PM   #11
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When you started this project what kind of time frame were you thinking of?
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:56 PM   #12
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If Jim or Prolific start doing fish with the new tools, I can guarantee you it will take more than 1 day because of the new possibilities.

150 vertices per fish limit? Gone
fin structure cannot deviate significantly from current fish without rewriting the code? Gone
new fish require new programming, for instance the big wavy fins on the triggerfishes? Gone

And now things like realistic physics (a Wimplefish with a long, flowing banner that moves properly as the fish turns or darts off in a different direction), unusual fish shapes, individual fish behaviors, etc. are possible. Again I have not seen the new tools so I am extrapolating from what I've been told, but I'd imagine that someone could sit there for a week twiddling knobs and being creative and still not be 100% happy with the fish they created.

These 5 new fish do not use the new tools yet.


Derrek said:
I've always considered Jim an artist first, programmer second, now we have some programmer at prolific designing fish.
This is incorrect, and this is why I am going to write a philosophy statement about Prolific. Prolific is not 16 programmers. It is mostly artists and a few programmers. I think the artists at Prolific making the Goldfish Aquarium, FlagPride, etc. would take great offense at the implication that they are not artists.

As for Jim being an artist first and a programmer second, he's not willing to let go of the programmer element one bit. Please look at the chat logs of Feb 15th. Jim has spent the last months programming and studying code for the Freshwater Aquarium, not creating art.

Derrek said:
It seems in the past Jim was agaisnt anyone else making fish for him and now this. I guess I was just alittle shocked to hear he wasn't making the fish.
I am quickly learning that Jim's philosophies are expressed more strongly here on the forum than is necessarily the case.

Jim has encouraged his long-time friends at Prolific -- Reichart and Will -- to create other products and contribute to the Aquarium. Jim does not want "developer of the best damn aquarium ever" engraved on his tombstone. He wants to be known for his CG(I) movie. Yes, Jim has incredibly high standards for himself and is very guarded about his work after being screwed by so many companies over the years. But in the end, the Aquarium, Butterfly Garden, etc. are revenue streams to pay to make the movie.

Back in December 2000 when I first got involved in the Aquarium fan site, Jim said that he thought a developer's kit for making fish could be a possibility. Then he mentioned that Prolific would handle this if such a thing happened. A few months ago, Jim updated his personal website with these comments:

Next in the SereneScreen Series will be a Freshwater Tank, but that doesn't mean that the Marine Aquarium won't be updated. All SereneScreen environments will be ongoing projects, and many of the enhancements will be free to all registered users. For example, the Marine Aquarium will gain a 3D background, the ability to feed the fish, and the fish will be given different behavior based on species type. There will also be "Creature Paks" available for a small extra charge which will contain unusual or difficult-to-design animals.

These things will all take time. I worked alone in building the Marine Aquarium, but now that Prolific Publishing is involved, I have the opportunity to work with other talented artists and programmers to speed up the creative process. Nevertheless, I will remain solely responsible for maintaining the quality and realism of the SereneScreen brand.

-Jim Sachs
I guess no matter what Jim does, it will be considered "selling out" if he has other people help him.

Derrek said:
Kindof on a side note, is this screensaver project that Jim started taking longer than he expected?
In February 2002, Jim was quoted as saying that he thinks the Freshwater Aquarium would take "about 45 days".

379 days and counting...

Derrek said:
I know there was talks of a butterfly and a bird screensaver but if it takes as long to do those as it did to do this MA and freshwater screensaver he might not never get to his movie.
The latest schedule (to quote Jim):
Freshwater Aquarium with 5-7 fish
3D background for Marine Aquarium
Creature Pack 1 for Marine Aquarium
Butterfly Garden
expire from exhaustion
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:58 PM   #13
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Derrek - One per year for 5 years.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:34 PM   #14
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Cool Confused

I am confused........ here we have an announcement, of what? Some upcoming product? Can I see it? Where is the link to D/L? Seems there is a long list of "coming soon" software. Am I missing something?
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:54 PM   #15
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Ralph,

No you are not missing anything yet. But the next few months should make everyone very happy, ( and astounded ).
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:45 PM   #16
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I've cleaned up the announcement message some more.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:14 AM   #17
feldon34
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An product announcement is... an announcement.

Not to be confused with a product release.

Serious, if it were a product release, you would've gotten an e-mail.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:43 AM   #18
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Definitely great news all around!!! I'm curious about something though. Why was the Queen Angel redesigned yet again? I think the current incarnation is by far THE closest thing to a real Queen.

This new one does look nice, but to me it looks less like a Queen than any of the others before it. Just curious and feeling a little disappointed that I'll be losing one of the fish I happen to really like.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:25 AM   #19
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In a poll with 900 people voting, the brown Queen Angel was ranked dead last. That's 21st place out of 21 fish. But don't let that take away from it being one of your favorite fish.

I foresee a day when we can choose amongst the 3-4 versions.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:40 AM   #20
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Wow, absolutely great news here! The new fishies are awsome, especially the new (old?) Queen Angel! Can't wait to see it in the aquarium.

DL,
you don't loose a fish, you can always use an older version, like I, use the old widescreen version (.99K) because of the Queen Angel and the faster movements of the fishes. Looks more real to me, hopefully the wider speed range comes back in a future version, somewhen...
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