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Old 08-03-2002, 02:55 PM   #61
Reichart
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Although there is a product called “RAM Doubler,” this was a joke on my part. RAM Doubler the product uses swapping and compression.

We disagree that the Aquarium’s usage of the CPU is a “bug.” Based on that, Windows is a bug. Which as an original Amiga OS user, I can only conclude Windows to be.
I talked to a friend of mine who was one of the designers at AMD (he also designed the PowerPC). It appears there are a lot of tricks being used to make these CPUs cheap, at a cost of overheating the CPU under some conditions.

On the other side, the number of complaints we have received about the CPU issue have been so small that we don’t even have a category for it. You alone represent about 30%

Quality of the image is the goal of the prodect. That said, we always want to make things more efficient. And will over time.
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:12 PM   #62
peter piscis
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CPU usage

I agree with Feldon. That makes him only 25%.
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Old 08-05-2002, 04:17 AM   #63
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Better make that 17% – A friend of mine choose not to purchase the SS as he decided his overclocked machine was running too hot as it was already. I have no such problem (for the moment) but can't say I'm too pleased about this bug (as it IMHO is).

/Tiny Percentage
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 08-05-2002, 07:58 AM   #64
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12 1/2 % I haven't been running my screen saver as often as before I found it it pegs my CPU at 100%.
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Old 08-05-2002, 01:26 PM   #65
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Angry CPU Usage

Heck, I've got SereneScreen going ALL the time I'm not playing the latest computer game (even when I leave for vacation for weeks at a time!). I want to make sure my CPU is stoked and ready for my next intensive gaming session. No cold, chugalug CPU engine for me!

Seriously though, for the last several years I've had SS running all the time I'm not using my computer at work or at home (and yes, sometimes a computer will run with SS full-tilt for a couple weeks at a time) and I have yet to have a problem with any computer CPU. As long as you follow common sense and make sure your computer is well-ventilated and kept cool (as it always should be anyway), I really can't see a problem.
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Old 08-05-2002, 01:45 PM   #66
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Damn Pushwall! You are completely messing up my master plan! Ya see, I have learned that people don’t tend to speak up unless they are challenged. So several of us here in SereneScreen QA have started using an old stick that works well with programmers too. It goes something like “You (programmer) can’t possibly implement that feature in less than 24 hours…” And of coarse the programmer spends 3 days (3 sets of 8 hours) getting it done.

The same goes for testers and people reporting bugs. But you have to be more sly about it. Use things like “99% of people say they love this, or hate that!” People hate being categorized. And suddenly everyone and their cousin chimes in with “Well I do/don’t!”

This is very true on a Web ring I’m part of for braniacs. Every time a statistic comes out, everyone wants to be the first to tell everyone else how they are not part of that statistic.

But how to turn this to my favour?

We are “almost” up to 7 people who have complained about the heating issue. Although some are not clear enough about whether it actually “overheats” their computer (to failure), or just heats their computer. Sort of like being kinda pregnant.
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Old 08-05-2002, 03:41 PM   #67
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R, I thought one of the ideas/purposes/whatever for this forum was to discuss bugs and potential problems with the SS. Now you're saying that it's stupid?

Walking around in the sun all day without drinking anything might end up with having a sunstroke if one's prone to that. Since my friend (of my last post) doesn't like having a sunstroke, – he stays out of the sun. That's not "kinda" having a sunstroke.

Please forgive me if I've misunderstood your post – Irony is a thin rope to walk on when communicating only by written words (then again, that's why someone came up with smileys).

/Kinda Tiny
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Old 08-05-2002, 03:55 PM   #68
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Embarassed Irony

Yes, I was having fun.

I take bugs very seriously. But I take life lightly.

As to the actual issue, I do not view this as a bug, because the code is written like most video games. But because we run 24/7 “some” (few) systems overheat. Thus we will address it over time.

I use a Dell 8100 (portable) as my primary system for example. The Aquarium, and even several Aquariums running at the same time do not heat up on my system at all. However, Word, and doing a search in File Manager cause both fans to kick on.

On the Mac we put in a 30, and a 60 cap. On future version of the Aquarium, we will do the same. When we move over to DX 7, we will make some other changes that are not possible right now.

"Castigat ridendo mores" <laughter succeeds where lecturing won't>
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:02 PM   #69
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Well, I have to admit that I am in the same group. Ever since I have been here, which was only a short time after Jim started this whole process, the screen saver has been the ONLY one used for the entire time. I also let mine run 24/7 no matter what. If I'm not sitting at my desk actually working with some other app., it's on. In all that time I have never had any problems, well none that weren't my own fault anyway ( I did smoke a video card once from overclocking, but that's another story. ) The only steady problem that I have seen over that period of time, is that with GeForce cards, generally the faster ones, I run a GF2 Ultra here, if left alone to run for several days, the speed of the bubbles accelerates over time until the bubbles are moving at "warp speed" and are not much more than a blur.
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:24 PM   #70
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OK.

Guess I'm "Le Malade imaginaire" then, huh?

/Tiny Argan
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:41 PM   #71
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Totally off-topic, but when I saw the subject of this thread, "Aquarium Bugs," the first thought I had was: copepods and amphipods.

I've been hanging around reefkeeping newsgroups too long. :\
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:48 PM   #72
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On the Mac we put in a 30, and a 60 cap. On future version of the Aquarium, we will do the same. When we move over to DX 7, we will make some other changes that are not possible right now.
FYI, The 60 fps checkbox on the Windows version does not have the desired effect. On most systems, it slows down the Aquarium to 50 frames per second, but still races the CPU at 100%.


BlueWinterWaves,

re: reefkeeping newsgroups, could you post a few? Occasionally we get someone in the chatroom desparate to save a sick fish and I don't know where to send them other than the pet store.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
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Old 08-06-2002, 02:30 AM   #73
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How the 60fps box works:

The program draws a frame, sets a timer, then returns CPU control to Windows.

When the programs gets control back, it checks the timer. If less than 1/60 of a second has gone by, it keeps retuning control to Windows until it has. On some machines, Windows keeps control of the CPU for a bit longer, resulting in a frame rate of less than 60.

For all the complaining about CPU usage, I've yet to hear any suggestion on any possible way to quiet down the CPU. What else would I do besides return control to Windows after drawing a frame? Attempt to stop the processor's heart, then restart it when a timer counts down? The processor itself would be what is powering that timer.
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Old 08-06-2002, 06:43 AM   #74
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Instead of staying in your program execution loop, could you go passively event-based? Instead of looping around 5,000 times "Has 1/60th of a second gone by?", using 100% CPU, you tell Windows "call me back when 1/60th of a second has gone by".
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Old 08-06-2002, 10:35 AM   #75
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Actually. it only loops once or twice, which is why many machines slow down to 50 hz.
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Old 08-06-2002, 11:15 AM   #76
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Normally I get 240fps. This snapshot is with 60fps locked. The FPS oscillates between 58, 60, and 64.

"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
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Old 08-06-2002, 11:38 AM   #77
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All of my experiments with letting Windows control the alarm clock have resulted in jerky animation.
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:53 PM   #78
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Originally posted by feldon23
BlueWinterWaves,

re: reefkeeping newsgroups, could you post a few? Occasionally we get someone in the chatroom desparate to save a sick fish and I don't know where to send them other than the pet store.
Sorry, I didn't notice your post until now. OK, here's a few:

Of course there is rec.aquaria.marine.reefs, on Usenet. Great resource. A few snooty ones in there that think they know everything there is to know (and they DO know a lot, but they could lose the 'tude). But otherwise it's a cool group and very informative. For fish-only (non-reef) tanks, see rec.aquaria.marine.misc.

A few web sites:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/index.htm?terms=reef
http://community-2.webtv.net/deflizard/doc/
http://home1.gte.net/rhe1/nanoreef/frindex.htm for nano-reefs
http://www.nano-reef.com also for nano reefs
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../2/default.asp
http://www.reefkeepers.org/home.html
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/
http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/stand...pipe_frame.htm (how to make your reef tank NOT sound like a 24/7 flushing toilet)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...907445-9637457 (a great list of books to read by one of the r.a.m.r group regulars).

Yahoo Groups also has a ton of aquarium-related groups.

And if you're lazy and want to have a no-maintainenance coral reef tank :
http://ffexpress.com/rubbers/rubber_corals.htm (I joke about them, but they're actually pretty good for filling in spaces. 99% of large public aquariums, like the Long Beach Aquarium in California, have fake corals. It would simply take way too much artificial lighting to light tanks that deep, and tons of maintenance to keep them going with all live corals.)

Hope this helps someone.
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Old 08-15-2002, 01:50 AM   #79
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More on going idle

It's been a few years, but I had real trouble getting an app to actually "go idle".

WRT the aquarium, assuming you're running on a reasonable fast CPU, each frame rendered is going to take SOME CPU time - and rendering can be fairly CPU intensive. Assuming that the aquarium is set to no FPS limit, then I'd expect it to take 100% CPU no matter what - as the aquarium is most likely attempting to render AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, so it effective should become CPU-bound. Only other tasks with equal or higher priority should be able to steal CPU ticks from the Aquarium if it's running FPS unlimited.

But, if the frame rate is 60Hz limited, (and assuming your CPU take significantly less than 1/60th of a second to use the CPU to render a single frame), then it becomes fairly interesting that the aquarium is still pegged at 100%.

This is where I had trouble with a old app I wrote which was sucking too much CPU time when it had very little to do. I can vaguely remember that if the app simply exited when it was completed (and returned control back to Windows), if there was nothing else going on in the system, Windows would effectively turn right around and return all the CPU control back to my app. In other words, Windows had nothing else to do, so he kept giving me back all the free CPU time, even though I didn't need it.

I think the problem was solved by telling Windows to Yield my process. I don't remember all the deatails (fog brain), but effectively I had to explicitly tell Windows that I no longer wanted anymore of my current timeslice. This trick caused Windows to not immediately return CPU control to me, but then Windows would give the remaining portion of my timeslice over to the idle task. After the next timeslice, Windows would give me control again, I'd do my little teeny bit of work, then I'd relinquish the remainder of this next timeslice, etc.

This resulted in my app only consuming about 25% of the CPU instead of 100% with the same effective results. Now, I wish I could remember how I did that.

I have another idle app I run called PRIME95, which calculates REALLY HONKING BIG prime numbers. It is VERY well behaved at only using as much CPU idle time as you give it. I think the source code is available for it, so it might be worth investigating.

Off the top of my head, my suspicion is that if the Aquarium uses PeekMessage() or fairly fast Timer, it's probably fooling Windows into giving it too much CPU time even though it doesn't need it. I'm not sure if this could be done, but an idle thread calling WaitForObject() might produce better CPU utilization.

I'll see if I can dig up any of my really OLD notes on CPU usage handling and yielding timeslices. This might require some site excavation though!

BB.
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Old 09-19-2002, 02:12 PM   #80
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Regarding reefkeeping web sites, I like:

www.wetwebmedia.com for fresh and saltwater aquarium info
talk.wetwebfotos.com a bulletin board associated with WetWebMedia
www.reefcentral.com for general saltwater aquarium discussions

The first site is run by Bob Fenner, author of the book The Conscientious Marine Aquarist and has a link to e0mail him and his helpers a question. They generally e-mail you an answer within a couple of hours.
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