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Old 04-13-2008, 06:50 AM   #1541
Jav400
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I fail to see what the big hubbub is about. It is only an option, and one that is easily turned off. Just because it is there doesn't mean you are required to use it.

You can easily enable the bubble sounds, or turn them both off if you wish.
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:31 AM   #1542
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I fail to see your objection to having them as options that can be turned on if we want them.
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:08 AM   #1543
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If MA3 can do music, then it needs to have a default track, which must default to "ON". One tap of the M key turns it off, and the program remembers that setting. The Aquarium's number one problem is the fact that so many people have it. Practically every day I talk to someone who bought the program 7 years ago and asks if I've ever thought of adding something new - those 3 fish look pretty lonely. They are quite surprised to find that there are now 27 fish.

Having the default music softly playing in the background the first time MA3 is started is the best way I can think of to advertise the fact that this is a new version with new features. Sure, people could play a CD or use WinAmp, but 99% don't, and wouldn't know how. They won't make their own playlists in the Aquarium, either, because that would mean using an Explorer-style interface to navigate and find the music, and my average customer can't do that (unless their son or daughter does it for them).
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:38 AM   #1544
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
.... Having the default music softly playing in the background the first time MA3 is started is the best way I can think of to advertise the fact that this is a new version with new features. ....  
You don't think it will look different enough without repetitive music playing in the background?
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:54 AM   #1545
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No. It certainly looks totally different to me, but even one of the Alpha testers said that it didn't look much different to him.

By the way, my search for a MIDI authoring and instrument crafting tool has led me right back to DirectX itself. There's a free Microsoft program called DirectMusic Producer that appears to do everything that I want. It doesn't automatically get installed with the DirectX Development Kit, but it's a free download from MS.
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Old 04-13-2008, 11:07 AM   #1546
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
.... even one of the Alpha testers said that it didn't look much different to him....  
Then you've chosen the wrong people to test, if they can't tell the difference! - Wouldn't you say?

I am obviously fighting a loosing battle here, as are others who think as I do. I realise that we are going out on a limb by even suggesting what the developer should or shouldn't be doing. - But if our opinions are to be overridden by the 'average' computer illiterate out there, then it doesn't really matter what we think, does it?

....So this had better be my last post on this subject.

I can accept that market forces will always rule the day, (ie,...if it will sell more then do it!) - But I find it harder to accept that the average person, (including one Alpha tester), can't/won't even be able to tell the difference between MA2 and MA3, without it playing music to them!
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:24 PM   #1547
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
So, it's a question of:
1. Scrapping the whole idea of music.
2. Keeping the User Playlist, but with no default track.
3. Rolling up my sleeves and really taking the MIDI thing seriously.
4. Going with a much shorter MP3 file as the default.  
2 and or 4 seem the most simple and best options, imo.
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:43 PM   #1548
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Without a default track, people wouldn't know that it does music, so that option is out. A shorter loop is no good, as it gets too repetitive. I need a good 5-minute piece of music to avoid this. Looks like Door Number 3.

Cliff - except for one last-minute addition, I didn't choose the testers. But I do value your opinions. I'm sure your finger will be poised over the "M" key the first time MA3 starts Oh, wait -- you've already pressed it, so you'll never have to do it again, unless I change the Registry locations. Or you could go directly into the Settings screen and turn off the music there before even starting the program.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:33 PM   #1549
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Originally posted by Johnboy:
Hi All,
As you can see I'm a newbie here but have been one of Jim Sachs 'lurkers' for many's a while. Probably the excitement of MA3 is getting to me as well. All you great folks have become my weekly/daily dose of 'soap opera'. (I know, 'get a life')

Mr Sachs, your Marine Aquarium is superb. We are not worthy.

Anyway, to the point. On the sound issue. How many of us listen continuously to the same piece? so either the music is constantly off, or we use or own playlist anyway. Probably any bundled music would become redundant very quickly. Why not save all those bundled bytes and just use the 'bubbles' sound as the default?

Looking forward to the next 'episode' already.

P.S. my apologies for the picture. I'm not really a gangster. (I got thrown out the Mafia for cruelty. lol.)  
Welcome aboard Johnboy. I can't believe that no one else has welcome you to the forum. I apologized for their oversight. The new version of Serene Screen Aquarium has all of us excited and still nic-picking over features. I just want a cuttlefish.

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Old 04-13-2008, 05:37 PM   #1550
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rizorido - Sorry, I somehow missed your message earlier. The MA3 program is still in an Alpha stage, which means that experimental features are being tested by a very small group who won't sue me if it crashes and wipes out their hard drive.

As soon as a few more major features are in and it's more stable, I'll call it a Beta version, and open it up for wider testing by Forum members.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:04 AM   #1551
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I am one of those who never will use the music playback feature (don't like the bubble sound either). That said, I understand the idea of telling people it can play sounds.

How about better documentation of the features? Right now the way people learn abouit the various keys to press while it's running is by word of mouth or reading about them here on the forum. Why not have a window pop up when running it the first time telling about them?

This one will probably be read more if it looks a little more interesting than the typical readme text file so why not add some fish and suitable icons to it to increase the chance people read it?

/Tiny Two Cents
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:53 AM   #1552
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
.... Cliff - except for one last-minute addition, I didn't choose the testers. ....  
You will be aware that a few of us did not think that was one of your better decisions.

As I have said, I have no problem with having music from a playlist as an option. I would like to have that as a feature. - It is the reasons given for it needing to be the default that I see as suspect. - I had had similar thoughts to Tiny...
ie, The program could easily start up for the first time with a few checkboxes, (like some of those in the current Program Settings panel), which is not uncommon when starting some new programs for the first time. - That would solve the problem, and let first time users know some of what was available, without confusing them too much.

Let's face it, 22:1, (at the last count!), must be telling you something?
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:56 AM   #1553
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Starting up with checkboxes is a possibility. I'll give it some thought.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:04 AM   #1554
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I was hoping we were getting close to seeing MA3 in beta form soon but now with this MP3 playlist and MIDI background sounds I just wonder how far it pushed the release of the beta back.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:19 AM   #1555
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We aren't that close to start with. I mean if you are expecting a matter of a few days, then no it wasn't. There are still other things that need doing as well.

But it isn't months and months either.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:20 AM   #1556
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Originally posted by Wizwad:
Maybe you can just have a tinker round with your laptop and find which sounds are least likely to sound bad. Harp and piano seem most realistic across the different sorts of systems, i.e. with low as well as high end audio cards / samples, so maybe a piece with just those voices would be OK?  
The default MIDI sounds that ship with Windows are horrific. Most decent sound cards provide drivers that replace those sounds with better ones.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:22 AM   #1557
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
If MA3 can do music, then it needs to have a default track, which must default to "ON". One tap of the M key turns it off, and the program remembers that setting. The Aquarium's number one problem is the fact that so many people have it. Practically every day I talk to someone who bought the program 7 years ago and asks if I've ever thought of adding something new - those 3 fish look pretty lonely. They are quite surprised to find that there are now 27 fish.  
I think the Aquarium should check for the presence of new versions. Not nagging, not every time you launch. I've sent you a PM about it.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:33 AM   #1558
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Originally posted by Jim Sachs:
Without a default track, people wouldn't know that it does music, so that option is out. A shorter loop is no good, as it gets too repetitive. I need a good 5-minute piece of music to avoid this. Looks like Door Number 3.  
I have ALWAYS felt that the Aquarium should, on first launch, display some type of message that to get Settings, press the SPACE bar. If they open up the Settings tab and see options for Music, etc. that would be great.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:03 PM   #1559
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I'm using DirectMusic Producer now, which can craft sound loops and imbed them into the music file, so it should be much longer before I get a decent-sounding default track. Then it's on to the collision-detection routine. That's the big one before it can be released as a Beta.

Morgan - I got your PM regarding version-checking. Sounds hard. Since it deals with text strings, I'd rather just shoot myself and save the trouble. There are very few things in this world I hate more than dealing with text on a computer.

Displaying Settings upon launch - maybe. I'll consider it.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:37 PM   #1560
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So its just TWO more things to go before we can see a beta, music and collision detection. How about just using the previous collision detection from MA 2.6. I don't even remember seeing the fishes collide as much as the other fish screen savers. One problem solved. One to go. Sounds close now
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