3-D generic question - Page 2

Jim Sachs · 08-03-2003, 10:52 AM

Alas, since DX8, stereoscopic glasses are no longer supported. Some idiot took out the ability to know whether you are looking at the front buffer or the back buffer. This is crucial to stereo vision, as well as to putting up requesters over the main window. I am dealing with that problem right now in the Freshwater program. When you bring up a requester, like the Settings screen, there's a 50-50 chance that it will come up behind the main screen and thus be invisible. So the programmer is forced to kill the whole program and go back to the desktop to display the requester, then rebuild the whole thing when the user presses OK.

Lostboy · 08-13-2003, 04:30 PM

Speaking of 3D glasses, I just thought some people would like to know that nVidia finally updated their drivers to 45.23. I can use my glasses again!!! I got to see the goldfish for the first time, very cool!

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dstereo_45.23

Jav400 · 08-13-2003, 07:25 PM

Hot dang, lemme try them

Socrates · 08-13-2003, 07:58 PM

Well the drivers work a little better... but the glasses still randomly stop working until reboot, and now I get bsod's in goldfish -- with and without stereo enabled..

Ralph · 08-13-2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Socrates
Well the drivers work a little better... but the glasses still randomly stop working until reboot, and now I get bsod's in goldfish -- with and without stereo enabled..

Are these glasses hardwired to your computer via a USB port? or are these the wireless kind

Jav400 · 08-13-2003, 08:37 PM

Information about the glasses I use are located here http://www.stereovision.net/reviews/...e3dpremium.htm

I do seem to be having some troubles. These drivers work better than the last ones I tried but not as well as the wicked 3D that I use to use. Unfortunately they are no longer there and drivers for 2K aren't available from them.

The Goldfish aquarium works the best and gives me the best 3D "look". When I try it out on MA2 using the same settings I get some smearing issues with the fish movement within an inch or so of the left and right side of my monitor.

Jim, any comments here? Why would GF work better than MA? I will continue to test and try to figure things out.

Socrates · 08-13-2003, 09:12 PM

JAv, for the smearing try pressing Alt-F2 (that is the hotkey for auto-adjust).

My glasses look exactly like Javs, but they use a little pass through board and take power from the power supply internally.

Jav400 · 08-13-2003, 09:52 PM

Nope that didn't help.

The more I increase separation, the wider the band on the sides gets. Everytime a fish swims in that area it leaves a stuttering smear where it was. Everything in the center works fine, its just on the edges.

Socrates · 08-13-2003, 11:27 PM

This is the setting the bottom one labeled "Suggest Settings"

When I push the hotkey for that in MA2, the blurring on the sides vanishes.

Jim Sachs · 08-13-2003, 11:27 PM

Jav - The smearing is caused by the drivers not refreshing the edges of the screen. The Wicked3D drivers I was using with Win98 had an adjustment for this, but I have not found any system that was useable at all with Win2K/XP/DX8.

The Goldfish Aquarium uses a different code base from MA, so I'm not surprised that it acts differently. Which would be the best choice for viewing in 3D? Your guess is as good as mine. I think the card manufactuers are experimenting with different software-based schemes to count the frames and determine which buffer is being displayed to which eye, but without OS support they are probably doomed.

Jav400 · 08-14-2003, 03:45 PM

Jim - Well I have been experimenting and have everything under control at this point, at least as far as 2 days of testing can be. Edges are fixed and your aquarium looks like it used too in full 3D again.

So far I haven't experienced and BSOD's or lockups and still have my fingers crossed for future testing. You might try these out on your system and see what results you get Jim. I have upgraded to the 45.23 standard drivers and also installed the 45.23 stereo 3D wrapper drivers.

Now all I need is a new 3D background to look at.

Socrates · 08-15-2003, 03:45 AM

I have narrowed it down to the 45.23 card drivers for bsods on my system. I had to use a restore point to fix the problem.

cjmaddy · 08-31-2003, 05:04 PM

This subject and the 45.23 drivers have also been discussed at some length on a thread elsewhere.

Some of the information contained there, could be of interest to forum readers on this thread, - in particular, the reasonably priced Revelator 3D glasses! (assuming you do a little shopping around of course! )

After all the interest and expectation shown over the past year or so for the 3D background, this sort of information can only help to make clear to those that may not realise it, that some additional software/hardware will be required to fully appreciate all the hard work put into the three dimensional features of the screen savers!
I am NOT suggesting for one moment that 3D classes will HAVE to be used, only that IMHO I don't think it has been clearly spelt out until recently, that the highly anticipated 3D backgrounds, will remain no different from the existing 2D backgrounds, when seen as a static image on the average monitor. .... (Unless viewed through 3D glasses!)

I expect my Revelator 3D shutter glasses to arrive in the next day or so, until then I have been having a very interesting time experimenting with anaglyph red/green, using some old cardboard 3D glasses! - On my system, these new 45.23 drivers seem to be the best yet, I can recommend them! - even without the additional stereo drivers! - And to anyone in the UK that is interested in 3D glasses, why not check out ......

http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/search...&CATEGORY0=160

I will report back when they arrive and I have tested them.

So as not mislead in any way, - I would like to stress what I said in my earlier post .....

I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people will never see the aquarium with 3D glasses, so Ralph's original point is still valid. IMHO!
Unless the background is traversing across the front of us, allowing a 3D image to give the illusion of being able to see around the sides, then ALL images, wether 2D or 3D, will alway be relying on sharpness, shading and size difference, to complete the illusion of depth.

The descriptions given of the pending 3D background will, (I assume!), satisfy all these requirements, because it will be moving!

.... But a static 3D background will always look 2D ...... unless viewed through 3D glasses!

Jav400 · 08-31-2003, 05:54 PM

In answer to Soc's post. So far I have also been using the 45.23 drivers to take advantage of the 45.23 version of the stereo wrapper. I haven't had any BSOD's to date, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Currently I am running 2K Pro with SP3 installed.

Maybe a thread in the Coffee House about 3D would be appropriate.

Digital Lungfish · 08-31-2003, 07:40 PM

Maybe a thread in the Coffee House about 3D would be appropriate.

Considering how many threads we've gone off topic to 3D, that would probably be a good idea.

cjmaddy · 09-01-2003, 09:33 AM

Considering how many threads we've gone off topic to 3D, that would probably be a good idea.

That was my aim in suggesting moving the posts from you know where!

Well, I've been called a jerk, and sent straight to bed with no dinner, - so what else can go wrong! ......

........... I'll start a 3D Glasses thread!

08-03-2003, 10:52 AM	#21
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,780	Alas, since DX8, stereoscopic glasses are no longer supported. Some idiot took out the ability to know whether you are looking at the front buffer or the back buffer. This is crucial to stereo vision, as well as to putting up requesters over the main window. I am dealing with that problem right now in the Freshwater program. When you bring up a requester, like the Settings screen, there's a 50-50 chance that it will come up behind the main screen and thus be invisible. So the programmer is forced to kill the whole program and go back to the desktop to display the requester, then rebuild the whole thing when the user presses OK. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

08-13-2003, 07:25 PM	#23
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Hot dang, lemme try them Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-13-2003, 07:58 PM	#24
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	Well the drivers work a little better... but the glasses still randomly stop working until reboot, and now I get bsod's in goldfish -- with and without stereo enabled.. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

08-13-2003, 08:37 PM	#26
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Information about the glasses I use are located here http://www.stereovision.net/reviews/...e3dpremium.htm I do seem to be having some troubles. These drivers work better than the last ones I tried but not as well as the wicked 3D that I use to use. Unfortunately they are no longer there and drivers for 2K aren't available from them. The Goldfish aquarium works the best and gives me the best 3D "look". When I try it out on MA2 using the same settings I get some smearing issues with the fish movement within an inch or so of the left and right side of my monitor. Jim, any comments here? Why would GF work better than MA? I will continue to test and try to figure things out. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-13-2003, 09:12 PM	#27
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	JAv, for the smearing try pressing Alt-F2 (that is the hotkey for auto-adjust). My glasses look exactly like Javs, but they use a little pass through board and take power from the power supply internally. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

08-13-2003, 04:30 PM	#22
Lostboy SquirrelFish Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 206	Speaking of 3D glasses, I just thought some people would like to know that nVidia finally updated their drivers to 45.23. I can use my glasses again!!! I got to see the goldfish for the first time, very cool! http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dstereo_45.23

08-13-2003, 08:22 PM	#25
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,440	Originally posted by Socrates Well the drivers work a little better... but the glasses still randomly stop working until reboot, and now I get bsod's in goldfish -- with and without stereo enabled.. Are these glasses hardwired to your computer via a USB port? or are these the wireless kind

08-13-2003, 09:52 PM	#28
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Nope that didn't help. The more I increase separation, the wider the band on the sides gets. Everytime a fish swims in that area it leaves a stuttering smear where it was. Everything in the center works fine, its just on the edges. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-13-2003, 11:27 PM	#30
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,780	Jav - The smearing is caused by the drivers not refreshing the edges of the screen. The Wicked3D drivers I was using with Win98 had an adjustment for this, but I have not found any system that was useable at all with Win2K/XP/DX8. The Goldfish Aquarium uses a different code base from MA, so I'm not surprised that it acts differently. Which would be the best choice for viewing in 3D? Your guess is as good as mine. I think the card manufactuers are experimenting with different software-based schemes to count the frames and determine which buffer is being displayed to which eye, but without OS support they are probably doomed. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

08-14-2003, 03:45 PM	#31
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Jim - Well I have been experimenting and have everything under control at this point, at least as far as 2 days of testing can be. Edges are fixed and your aquarium looks like it used too in full 3D again. So far I haven't experienced and BSOD's or lockups and still have my fingers crossed for future testing. You might try these out on your system and see what results you get Jim. I have upgraded to the 45.23 standard drivers and also installed the 45.23 stereo 3D wrapper drivers. Now all I need is a new 3D background to look at. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-15-2003, 03:45 AM	#32
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	I have narrowed it down to the 45.23 card drivers for bsods on my system. I had to use a restore point to fix the problem. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

08-31-2003, 05:04 PM	#33
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	This subject and the 45.23 drivers have also been discussed at some length on a thread elsewhere. Some of the information contained there, could be of interest to forum readers on this thread, - in particular, the reasonably priced Revelator 3D glasses! (assuming you do a little shopping around of course! ) After all the interest and expectation shown over the past year or so for the 3D background, this sort of information can only help to make clear to those that may not realise it, that some additional software/hardware will be required to fully appreciate all the hard work put into the three dimensional features of the screen savers! I am NOT suggesting for one moment that 3D classes will HAVE to be used, only that IMHO I don't think it has been clearly spelt out until recently, that the highly anticipated 3D backgrounds, will remain no different from the existing 2D backgrounds, when seen as a static image on the average monitor. .... (Unless viewed through 3D glasses!) I expect my Revelator 3D shutter glasses to arrive in the next day or so, until then I have been having a very interesting time experimenting with anaglyph red/green, using some old cardboard 3D glasses! - On my system, these new 45.23 drivers seem to be the best yet, I can recommend them! - even without the additional stereo drivers! - And to anyone in the UK that is interested in 3D glasses, why not check out ...... http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/search...&CATEGORY0=160 I will report back when they arrive and I have tested them. So as not mislead in any way, - I would like to stress what I said in my earlier post ..... I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people will never see the aquarium with 3D glasses, so Ralph's original point is still valid. IMHO! Unless the background is traversing across the front of us, allowing a 3D image to give the illusion of being able to see around the sides, then ALL images, wether 2D or 3D, will alway be relying on sharpness, shading and size difference, to complete the illusion of depth. The descriptions given of the pending 3D background will, (I assume!), satisfy all these requirements, because it will be moving! .... But a static 3D background will always look 2D ...... unless viewed through 3D glasses!

08-31-2003, 05:54 PM	#34
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	In answer to Soc's post. So far I have also been using the 45.23 drivers to take advantage of the 45.23 version of the stereo wrapper. I haven't had any BSOD's to date, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Currently I am running 2K Pro with SP3 installed. Maybe a thread in the Coffee House about 3D would be appropriate. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

08-31-2003, 07:40 PM	#35
Digital Lungfish Obey the toad! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,557	Maybe a thread in the Coffee House about 3D would be appropriate. Considering how many threads we've gone off topic to 3D, that would probably be a good idea. Steve www.tron-sector.com - www.badcartridge.com - www.classicgaming.com - www.dinofish.com Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday...

09-01-2003, 09:33 AM	#36
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Considering how many threads we've gone off topic to 3D, that would probably be a good idea. That was my aim in suggesting moving the posts from you know where! Well, I've been called a jerk, and sent straight to bed with no dinner, - so what else can go wrong! ...... ........... I'll start a 3D Glasses thread!