Can we Have a WIP Thread?

[Sergiales]

Only two? awesome. It means that the rest is dynamic animation. That's probably the reason for which Jim's program is so amazing.

[feldon34]

Or as I call it procedural animation.

[Sergiales]

I like that name!

[Jim Sachs]

Yes, all of that is correct.

The two animation techniques you described apply to 3D objects. There is a third type of animation, traditional 2D cel animation. This consists of having many different 2D pictures of an object already in memory, and flipping through a series of them when you want a particular movement. This is how the Mopyfish program works. The limitations are the vast amout of memory required, and the "canned" look of the sequences. However, it does have its uses, and I will be employing it for some background objects in the Freshwater Tank.

[Ad_Enuff]

Jim,

At this point in time, the aquarium contains numerous fish (26 at the last count) and a starfish.

As purchaser of your screensaver and fan of course, I see that the next step is the 3D background as Sergio started to mention a few posts back.

The fish as they stand work extremely well and seemly do not need any further work currently and with 26 currently on offer, there is enough of them to satisfy any Marine Aqurium fan.

Therefore what do you need from feldon and Sergio in terms of help with the 3D background to get that off the ground?

[Sergiales]

Originally posted by Ad_Enuff
Therefore what do you need from feldon and Sergio in terms of help with the 3D background to get that off the ground?

Nothing from me (i'm a bad guy) , a bit more from Morgan

[feldon34]

Ad_Enuff:

Alas, Jim is the only one driving product development. The next step is to create a new animation system for the fish in the Freshwater Aquarium, which will include a 3D background. The Marine Aquarium is on indefinite hold until the Freshwater comes out.

It is my understanding that there will be no more work done on the 3D background for MA until the Freshwater Aquarium is done. Right, Jim?

Deja vu?

[Ad_Enuff]

Originally posted by feldon28
The Marine Aquarium is on indefinite hold until the Freshwater comes out.

But as I originally said, the freshwater tank isn’t coming anytime soon either. Now we have two projects on indefinite hold!

This makes no sense to me. We might aswell all go home at this rate.

This is why I started the thread in the first place to encourage some ideas and bash through some the problems in the hopes to make some breakthrough. This forum holds so many fans of the screensaver with a huge passion for Jim's work, yet again I'm seeing a brick wall being raised again.

With so many people reading this thread in particular, it is obviously becoming some what of a concern to all that frequent this site.

With no WIP on either MA or FA, we are left wondering what or even IF these projects will ever get finished in the time scale batted around some threads by yourself and Jim.

Originally posted by klyntun
Deja vu?

It would seem like it doesnt it!

[feldon34]

Originally posted by Ad_Enuff
With no WIP on either MA or FA, we are left wondering what or even IF these projects will ever get finished in the time scale batted around some threads by yourself and Jim.

Every time scale that me or Jim have suggested has been thoroughly shattered.

[Ad_Enuff]

If Jim doesnt want his fans to start wandering off finding pirate versions of his screensaver for free and variations of different fish and tanks etc, Jim needs to come up with something totally new in terms of development. People will lose their patience very quickly if they see no results after so long.

Looking at the wishlist threads, so much has been asked for and requested, yet like other parts of both the FA and MA screensaver will also never see the light of day if we don't see a breakthrough soon.

Jim states this is a hobbie, yet is charging for it. Some of us are now wondering if some of the things talked about were just all talk and that whilst money is rolling in there has been lack of interest to finish it due to it still making money even in its current state. Thats not to say thats true, its just one view point.

I don't want to think that all the talk of other development such as the 3D background, the FA, further invertibrates etc plus new fish on the wishlist has been a complete waste of time and is at the end of the day letting his customers and fans down.

[cjmaddy]

There's yet another way of looking at all this, - and I've noticed this a number of times since I first started coming to this forum, (nearly three years ago!) ...... Whatever Jim does, or provides, - the first thing that many will ask for is more!

There was a corny old song way back, titled, "After you've got what you want you don't it." The next line was IIRC, "If I gave you the moon, you'd grow tired of it soon" - (... I told you it was corny!)

I did a driftwood and shells background for AquaReal about a year ago, - the immediate response I got was, - Do some more! - I only have six different fish in MA, and only occasionally change them. So the other twenty are hardly ever used.
Don't get me wrong, - I'm really looking forward to the FA! - But I still get immense pleasure from what I've got!

But then, - I never have understood the need for constant change, - improvement yes, - but not change for change sake!

........ This is one fan who does NOT feel let down!

[ESHIREY]

I think you said that pretty damn well. You're right. The better it is the more we want. That's why Ad_Enuff it takes so long to get an update. But when it does come, and you get your tongue up off the floor, you will know why it took so long. And then like the rest of us............... you will want more.

[Jim Sachs]

As far as making money from a hobby, there's certainly no contradiction there. My neighbor makes Chinese pottery. Some of these he sells. For a long time I made most of my money from buying and restoring cars, another hobby. In fact, I have no real job - just hobbies. I created a piece of digital artwork. I don't charge much - 20 bucks, the price of one dinner at a cheap restaurant. Judging from several hundred-thousand emails over the past four years, many consider it their favorite program at any price. As long as it continues to pay the bills, there's no urgent monetary reason to do another. It's a matter of what's fun for me. Doing more of the same is not fun. Breaking new ground is fun.

Not sure if this stuff is of any interest to Forum members, but computer work is actually a very small part of what's going on in my life right now. A good portion of my time is spent chauffeuring my daughter around (a High School Senior and no license yet!) and flying to different cities to visit colleges. Once she's off becoming a director, I should have more time. But then there's the Empty Nest syndrome.

I'm just finishing a 31-year project building this house in Southern California, and am remodeling another small house in Oregon. But the majority of my time is currently spent planning the Big Construction Project (also in Oregon) - the Sachs estate, our dream home, the last house I will ever build, my final resting place, etc. This is extremely difficult for me because it's so important to get it exactly right. Over a half-century of ideas all incorporated into one property. Think Disney World, only on a Grand Scale. OK, I'm kidding, but not by much - at least in my own mind.

This property will also include the movie studio where I hope to produce digital feature films, the financing of which is one of the main reasons I'm writing and selling these programs. So it's all connected, just like the seemingly disparate parts of everyone else's life.

[Jim Sachs]

I just remembered another question from Ad_Enough a page or so back. It was regarding the 3D background, and whether further work would be needed on the fish movement.

Every byte of the current fish movement will have to be scrapped when the 3D background is incorporated. The fish will have to avoid thousands of polygons of 3D objects (some of which will be moving) instead of just 2 two-dimensional planes. They also need to interact with the background objects - picking at coral, casting shadows on nearby objects, etc. All while chasing, fleeing, schooling and/or avoiding passing through each other. A programming nightmare, to say the least.

In spite of these obstacles, I actually have considered going back to the Marine Aquarium. The reason I put it on hold orginally was the fact that no distributers would carry the hard copy version of MA without at least one more program from me. So I started on the Freshwater Tank, thinking it would be an easy conversion. It quickly became obvious that it would not be so easy. However, the largest software distributer decided to carry MA without a second product, based on the tremendous success of a private deal we had with Fry's.

So, at this point the only real consideration regarding which program to work on is which would break the most new ground (which would be the most fun). I'm still leaning towards the Freshwater Tank.

[Sergiales]

Jim,

First of all, i wanted to thank you for sharing some things about your life beyond the computer hobby.

I fully agree with you when you say that it is absolutely important to work on something that you really like. It is an insane task to work many hours per week doing something that you do not like, or not really enjoy.

As for which program you should work on, we will appreciate whatever you do, so if your think that you have to break a new ground, i encourage you to do so.

As Cliff said, we should (and i do) continue enjoying and being fascinated by MA.

In this thread, we have been talking more or less in depth about some technical topics. It has been rather difficult for me to describe some terms so technically in a language in which i am not native. But i really enjoyed talking about it anyway. I'm just wanted to know if i could help breaking some barriers, like the LW2DX conversion, but now i know that Morgan is looking forward it.

I hope your daughter can obtain that license.

Ad_Enuff, i understand your desperation but as you can see this is not a conventional project. Don't expect a development planning, don't wait for a release date because that date doesn't exist. Jim is not going to give us any clue, not going to release a demo for betatesting, not even going to show us some screenshots, because i'm sure he wants to give us a BIG surprise.
You can be part of this great community, or leave us if you think that is not worth the waiting, but there is nothing we can do in order to speed things up, except for encouraging Jim a lot.

[feldon34]

I am good at processing information and fiddling with file formats. But I have never actually used Lightwave. It has a very organic method of operation which I have not been able to grasp just yet. I've never been able to really grasp 3D modeling and animation because my brain just doesn't work that way. Now claymation on the other hand...

[drfish]

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
However, the largest software distributer decided to carry MA without a second product, based on the tremendous success of a private deal we had with Fry's.

I was thinking about asking about this... I'm starting to see it show up everywhere now... It feels pretty good to see 300 odd boxes in a pile at SAMs club while it runs on all their computer screens and be like, "yeah, I know the dude that created that, he's cool."

[AKcrab]

[Marsh Marigold]

dang! Beat me to it!