Aquarium Hacked

WiseGuy · 12-20-2001, 08:10 AM

I am starting to see Jim's program Hacked all over the net!

This get's me mad!!

Jim has worked so hard to bring us the BEST Screensaver in the world and it is being hacked for free all over.

I guess the best program are the ones that get Hacked.

Sorry Jim,

John

pipeta · 12-20-2001, 08:59 AM

I agree, it is very easy to get KeyGens and download hacked versions of programs these days, especially popular programs are hacked (which is a good sign for the aquarium).
It is really anoying sometimes but many people use these KeyGens for testing perposes. For example, I really liked the demo version of the aquarium, but 20$ if quite alot of mony to waste on a product that you don't know the features of it's full version (many products have demos which have most of the full version's features and when you buy them and expect something really good you get disapointed) so if I like a product's demo I usually download a keygen, see the full version and then decide weather to buy it or not (if I decide not to I just uninstall it and reinstall the demo). I saw the full version of the aquarium and immediately bought it.
However many people do use KeyGens to get the full version.

feldon34 · 12-20-2001, 09:50 AM

Version 1.0 will have a more complicated serial number. Of course nothing is pirate-proof, but efforts are being made.

hpman77 · 12-21-2001, 05:18 AM

I did the same as pipeta. I'm tried of buying software that promises a lot, and when you buy you discover it was just that: promises, but nothing more

I downloaded the saver, and it was great. Tried a keygen, and it was awesome, so 10 minutes later I was buying it.

It's sad most ppl just use keygens or cracks just to get somebody else's work for nothing

HellBound · 12-23-2001, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by feldon23
Version 1.0 will have a more complicated serial number. Of course nothing is pirate-proof, but efforts are being made.

;p and I'am sure the second after 1.0 comes out it will be on the internet in full version. =P thats just the way the internet is.

Jim Sachs · 12-23-2001, 12:34 PM

The new key system conains a time-delay, making it much harder to hack. There are thousands of Key Codes which appear to work, but only for a random amount of time between a few seconds and a year. That way, for each Key he generates, a hacker would have to let the Aquarium run for up to a year just to see if it's a real Key, or a decoy.

Any legitimate Key which is posted on the Internet will be disabled in the next update, even for the person who bought it.

pipeta · 12-23-2001, 01:19 PM

That would give hackers a hard time but would also delay the posting of new versions after they are ready.

Jim Sachs · 12-23-2001, 01:23 PM

Not really - it just takes a few seconds to type a Key Code into the "blocked" list.

pipeta · 12-24-2001, 03:04 AM

Oh, that's good to hear. It sounds like a pretty useful and user friendly (both for the developer and the users) application (and not extremely hard to build, should take a few days).

hpman77 · 12-25-2001, 05:37 AM

Let's imagine a keygen produces the same key as mine (or anybody else's)...
And the next version blocks it...

That person would get his key banned without doing anything?

Jim Sachs · 12-25-2001, 10:56 AM

The new Keys are 20-digit alphanumerics, so the odds against this are several billion to 1.

hpman77 · 12-26-2001, 04:52 PM

I hope nobody will be that one in billions

The | Tycoon · 01-03-2002, 07:07 PM

Just a thought to Jims answer:

"...but only for a random amount of time between a few seconds and a year. That way, for each Key he generates, a hacker would have to let the Aquarium run for up to a year just to see if it's a real Key, or a decoy."

Surely the Hacker would only have to put their Date and Time properties forward by a year to check whether a new key worked? And if it didn't, then go on to the next one...

Just a thought. They do this sort of thing all the time!

WiseGuy · 01-07-2002, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
The new Keys are 20-digit alphanumerics, so the odds against this are several billion to 1.

Jim:
I believe CLONECD uses the same type of system
and it is Hacked less then 24hours after a new versions comes out.

If you where able to develop a way so your program could not be Hack, you would make more money then the Aquarium would every make.

I feel for Guy's like you.
It's just not fair.

John

Jav400 · 01-07-2002, 10:55 AM

Thats probably true, most locks are for honest people anyway. The trick is to make it difficult enough that getting it isn't worth the trouble, getting someone else's is easier. But, in this case, Jim has the only work like this. So I guess its just something that has to be delt with the best that it can.

Jim Sachs · 01-07-2002, 11:36 AM

Tycoon -

It's an internal counter, and has nothing to do with the date/time.

feldon34 · 01-07-2002, 11:51 AM

Most of the hackers just run a debugger and when the dialog box pops up asking for the keycode, they enter an invalid code and press OK. Then they find the place in the code (in assembly) where it does a BNE (branch not equal).

In other words, it failed the test.

Then they just put out a patch to change that to BE.

Some of the craftier coders listen in on how the code is tested and write down the mathematical steps and just perform them in reverse to create valid codes.

The toughest 2 copy protections I've seen lately were Sega Dreamcast games. They were written on 1GB CDs and it took 18 months to figure out. Bleem!, the Playstation emulator, required the original CD to play it. Nobody could figure out how to copy the CD for a long time.

The only uplifting thing in all this is the Aquarium is one of the top "illegal-to-legal" programs out there. People who go legit because it's really worth it!

WiseGuy · 01-08-2002, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by feldon23

The toughest 2 copy protections I've seen lately were Sega Dreamcast games. They were written on 1GB CDs and it took 18 months to figure out. Bleem!, the Playstation emulator, required the original CD to play it. Nobody could figure out how to copy the CD for a long time.

Are you taking about Safedisk2?
Tell me more, sounds interesting.
Are you saying that Bleem can not play Backup copy's of Playstation?
I know a Modchip is needed to play them in Playstation.

(Knowledge is Power)

feldon34 · 01-08-2002, 09:50 AM

No, I'm talking about the proprietary disc copy protection that Bleem came up with.

Bleem's ability or inability to play Playstation CD-Rs is irrelevant.

Anyway, Bleem is dead. www.bleem.com.

Sony successfully put them out of business. Proof that large companies can just litigate anyone to death.

Ralph · 01-17-2002, 09:31 PM

While hoping for an announcement regarding version 1.1 have been reading a lot of these posts. This seems to be a very good and intersting forum. But to add my 2 cents to the "Aquarium hacked" thread.

I found this screen saver from a link in a *.nfo file that was included with a Key-Gen. I had previously heard about a "very" good screen saver from Sach. Tried to find the his site but http://www.sach.com/ seems to be a hospital.

With the KG I was able to check out the deluxe version at my leisure. Absolutely enthralling this piece of work from Jim Sach. Having done some diving and wishing I had the space for an aquarium I just love this display.

So why am I telling all this.... Because I have since purchased this screen saver. It is an excellent program and absolutely worth purchasing. Not all software is, my previous aquarium screensaver "AquaSupreme" would freeze my machine under some conditions.

Would I have been impressed enough with just 3 fish in the "demo" version.... can't say. But I can say that with the opertunity to have seen the real thing I purchased, and am eagerly waiting for the additions.

12-20-2001, 08:10 AM	#1
WiseGuy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 16	Aquarium Hacked I am starting to see Jim's program Hacked all over the net! This get's me mad!! Jim has worked so hard to bring us the BEST Screensaver in the world and it is being hacked for free all over. I guess the best program are the ones that get Hacked. Sorry Jim, John

12-20-2001, 09:50 AM	#3
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Version 1.0 will have a more complicated serial number. Of course nothing is pirate-proof, but efforts are being made. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

12-21-2001, 05:18 AM	#4
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	I did the same as pipeta. I'm tried of buying software that promises a lot, and when you buy you discover it was just that: promises, but nothing more I downloaded the saver, and it was great. Tried a keygen, and it was awesome, so 10 minutes later I was buying it. It's sad most ppl just use keygens or cracks just to get somebody else's work for nothing .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

12-23-2001, 12:34 PM	#6
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	The new key system conains a time-delay, making it much harder to hack. There are thousands of Key Codes which appear to work, but only for a random amount of time between a few seconds and a year. That way, for each Key he generates, a hacker would have to let the Aquarium run for up to a year just to see if it's a real Key, or a decoy. Any legitimate Key which is posted on the Internet will be disabled in the next update, even for the person who bought it. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-23-2001, 01:23 PM	#8
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	Not really - it just takes a few seconds to type a Key Code into the "blocked" list. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-20-2001, 08:59 AM	#2
pipeta Royal Gramma Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 146	I agree, it is very easy to get KeyGens and download hacked versions of programs these days, especially popular programs are hacked (which is a good sign for the aquarium). It is really anoying sometimes but many people use these KeyGens for testing perposes. For example, I really liked the demo version of the aquarium, but 20$ if quite alot of mony to waste on a product that you don't know the features of it's full version (many products have demos which have most of the full version's features and when you buy them and expect something really good you get disapointed) so if I like a product's demo I usually download a keygen, see the full version and then decide weather to buy it or not (if I decide not to I just uninstall it and reinstall the demo). I saw the full version of the aquarium and immediately bought it. However many people do use KeyGens to get the full version.

12-23-2001, 11:49 AM	#5
HellBound Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 48	Originally posted by feldon23 Version 1.0 will have a more complicated serial number. Of course nothing is pirate-proof, but efforts are being made. ;p and I'am sure the second after 1.0 comes out it will be on the internet in full version. =P thats just the way the internet is.

12-23-2001, 01:19 PM	#7
pipeta Royal Gramma Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 146	That would give hackers a hard time but would also delay the posting of new versions after they are ready.

12-24-2001, 03:04 AM	#9
pipeta Royal Gramma Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 146	Oh, that's good to hear. It sounds like a pretty useful and user friendly (both for the developer and the users) application (and not extremely hard to build, should take a few days).

12-25-2001, 05:37 AM	#10
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	Let's imagine a keygen produces the same key as mine (or anybody else's)... And the next version blocks it... That person would get his key banned without doing anything? .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

12-25-2001, 10:56 AM	#11
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	The new Keys are 20-digit alphanumerics, so the odds against this are several billion to 1. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

12-26-2001, 04:52 PM	#12
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	I hope nobody will be that one in billions .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

01-03-2002, 07:07 PM	#13
The \| Tycoon Registered Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 19	Just a thought to Jims answer: "...but only for a random amount of time between a few seconds and a year. That way, for each Key he generates, a hacker would have to let the Aquarium run for up to a year just to see if it's a real Key, or a decoy." Surely the Hacker would only have to put their Date and Time properties forward by a year to check whether a new key worked? And if it didn't, then go on to the next one... Just a thought. They do this sort of thing all the time! ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°¤ The \| Tycoon Ô¿Ô ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°¤

01-07-2002, 10:40 AM	#14
WiseGuy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 16	Originally posted by Jim Sachs The new Keys are 20-digit alphanumerics, so the odds against this are several billion to 1. Jim: I believe CLONECD uses the same type of system and it is Hacked less then 24hours after a new versions comes out. If you where able to develop a way so your program could not be Hack, you would make more money then the Aquarium would every make. I feel for Guy's like you. It's just not fair. John

01-07-2002, 10:55 AM	#15
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	Thats probably true, most locks are for honest people anyway. The trick is to make it difficult enough that getting it isn't worth the trouble, getting someone else's is easier. But, in this case, Jim has the only work like this. So I guess its just something that has to be delt with the best that it can. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

01-07-2002, 11:36 AM	#16
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	Tycoon - It's an internal counter, and has nothing to do with the date/time. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-07-2002, 11:51 AM	#17
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Most of the hackers just run a debugger and when the dialog box pops up asking for the keycode, they enter an invalid code and press OK. Then they find the place in the code (in assembly) where it does a BNE (branch not equal). In other words, it failed the test. Then they just put out a patch to change that to BE. Some of the craftier coders listen in on how the code is tested and write down the mathematical steps and just perform them in reverse to create valid codes. The toughest 2 copy protections I've seen lately were Sega Dreamcast games. They were written on 1GB CDs and it took 18 months to figure out. Bleem!, the Playstation emulator, required the original CD to play it. Nobody could figure out how to copy the CD for a long time. The only uplifting thing in all this is the Aquarium is one of the top "illegal-to-legal" programs out there. People who go legit because it's really worth it! "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-08-2002, 09:15 AM	#18
WiseGuy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 16	Originally posted by feldon23 The toughest 2 copy protections I've seen lately were Sega Dreamcast games. They were written on 1GB CDs and it took 18 months to figure out. Bleem!, the Playstation emulator, required the original CD to play it. Nobody could figure out how to copy the CD for a long time. Are you taking about Safedisk2? Tell me more, sounds interesting. Are you saying that Bleem can not play Backup copy's of Playstation? I know a Modchip is needed to play them in Playstation. (Knowledge is Power)

01-08-2002, 09:50 AM	#19
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	No, I'm talking about the proprietary disc copy protection that Bleem came up with. Bleem's ability or inability to play Playstation CD-Rs is irrelevant. Anyway, Bleem is dead. www.bleem.com. Sony successfully put them out of business. Proof that large companies can just litigate anyone to death. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

01-17-2002, 09:31 PM	#20
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,454	While hoping for an announcement regarding version 1.1 have been reading a lot of these posts. This seems to be a very good and intersting forum. But to add my 2 cents to the "Aquarium hacked" thread. I found this screen saver from a link in a *.nfo file that was included with a Key-Gen. I had previously heard about a "very" good screen saver from Sach. Tried to find the his site but http://www.sach.com/ seems to be a hospital. With the KG I was able to check out the deluxe version at my leisure. Absolutely enthralling this piece of work from Jim Sach. Having done some diving and wishing I had the space for an aquarium I just love this display. So why am I telling all this.... Because I have since purchased this screen saver. It is an excellent program and absolutely worth purchasing. Not all software is, my previous aquarium screensaver "AquaSupreme" would freeze my machine under some conditions. Would I have been impressed enough with just 3 fish in the "demo" version.... can't say. But I can say that with the opertunity to have seen the real thing I purchased, and am eagerly waiting for the additions.