** SS Marine Aquarium 2.0 ~ monitor 'clicking' **

feldon34 · 03-18-2003, 10:41 PM

Does your display card/monitor have a longer negotiation about which mode/resolution/refresh to operate in with Marine Aquarium 2?

If so, we need to hear about it!

Reichart and I had a lengthy conversation about WHY this happens. SS Aquarium 99D up through early builds of MA2 have had a "rigged" way of getting into and out of the Aquarium as quickly as possible without a large number of compatibility problems.

Starting with Marine Aquarium 2.0, this "rigging" has been removed. Already, we are seeing several reports of DirectX negotiation taking 5-10 seconds and in my case, my monitor clicks thirteen times before the Aquarium comes on.

If this happens to you please vote in this topic!

I have been assured that a future version of the Aquarium will detect and "learn" what video card you have so that it can use either the "rigged" or "standard" method of negotiating.

Jim Sachs · 03-18-2003, 11:01 PM

In the original code, I used a brute-force way of switching the monitor to the desired resolution, so it only clicked once. Prolific does it the legal way, which, like most legal things, involves a lot of red tape.

An easy work-around is to set the Aquarium to the same resolution (especially bit-depth) as your desktop. Then it should switch instantly.

James · 03-18-2003, 11:05 PM

I'm using LCD so dont' hear any clicking BUT my screen refreshs twice, maybe there more than twice negotiations but since LCD wont' have clicking sound, I can't compare much. But the start up time is a bit longer(1~2 sec) compare to MA1.1.2

feldon34 · 03-18-2003, 11:42 PM

I consider 1-2 seconds and 1-2 flashes within acceptable parameters.

James · 03-19-2003, 12:20 AM

yup....that's why I vote "it does not bother me. "
however, I wonder does this problem tightly related to the video card or the monitor type?

Franklin J. Flocks · 03-19-2003, 12:31 AM

I just downloaded the trial version of 2.0.

It works fine on my monitor using my Arcade FX GForce MX 440-8XAGP nvidea video card. - As with version 1.0 and 1.1, I can view the fish stereoscopically using Elsa Revelator glasses and Win3D with VRCADDYPRO, but it appears that the frame rate is limited to about 62 fps which results in more flicker than I got with the earilier versions in stereo mode.

I like 2.0, but I don't think I would be willing to pay a full $20 for it, having paid $20 for the retail boxed version just last month.

feldon34 · 03-19-2003, 02:22 AM

Franklin,

It is not necessary to post the same message in 4 places. We understand your concerns.

drfish · 03-19-2003, 05:58 AM

What Jim says works great, however I get about 15fps less in 32bit than 16bit and here at work that's about 50% of my total frame rate, guess I'll put up with the clicking, I won't have to at home.

Yellow Tang · 03-19-2003, 06:26 AM

No problems here, so far. There's just a 3 second start delay (black screen), no flashes (changing from 1280x960 16 bit desktop to 1152x864 16 bit screensaver).

Derrek · 03-19-2003, 06:59 AM

I run my desktop at 1280x1024 at 32bit, I run the ma2 at 1600x1200 at 32 bit and my monitor only clicks twice, the ma2 is up and running in about 2 seconds. In this version the fish movement does seem to be very smooth compared to the last version.

diverslung · 03-19-2003, 05:34 PM

Sometimes my monitor switches twice until it finally runs the right resolution.
I run my desktop at 1600 x 1200 x 32 bit
and my screensaver at 1600 x 1200 x 16 bit.

feldon34 · 03-19-2003, 05:50 PM

I'm glad to see that this is much more of an isolated problem than I thought.

Ralph · 03-19-2003, 07:54 PM

For what it's worth only if I set the 16 /32 colors to the opposite of what my monitor is set at do I seem to get a "double" pause. No clicking in the "sound" sense. This is very similar to the effect I get when I change my resolution.
GeForce 3 Ti500 Windows 98 SE

Jim Sachs · 03-19-2003, 09:14 PM

Because that's exactly what it's doing.

feldon34 · 03-19-2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Ralph
For what it's worth only if I set the 16 /32 colors to the opposite of what my monitor is set at do I seem to get a "double" pause. No clicking in the "sound" sense. This is very similar to the effect I get when I change my resolution.
GeForce 3 Ti500 Windows 98 SE

I'd love to know what monitor you have. I've only ever seen an LCD do this because it does not have a voltage relay switch.

igalan · 03-20-2003, 03:36 AM

In my computer it takes 3 secs to start and two or three clicks, but it doesn't bother me. I'm running at 1024x768x32 85 Hz, GeForce3Ti200, Det.41.09, DX 8.2 (who needs DX9 now?

)

drfish · 03-20-2003, 05:49 AM

Tried it at home last night, I run both my desktop and screen saver at 1600x1200/85Hz/32bit so obviously there are no problems, works better than ever before, very pleased... And limiting the frame rate makes it only use 35% or so of my CPU. Couldn't be happier!

ROBERT CRONSHAW · 03-20-2003, 08:24 AM

I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TRY FOR MYSELF,BUT NO KEYCODE YET.STILL GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT SO I'M TOLD.

Ralph · 03-20-2003, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by feldon27
I'd love to know what monitor you have. I've only ever seen an LCD do this because it does not have a voltage relay switch.

Nothing special.

A SAMSUNG SyncMaster 955df.

camorgan · 03-21-2003, 01:45 PM

With the demo, mine only does this when the scr settings and my monitor settings aren't the same.

Can't wait to get my updated key... been a user a long time (.99 days) and seeing 2.0 released made my week!

View Poll Results: Are you having increased 'clicking' with MA2.0?
Yes, and I will use MA1.1 until it is fixed.	3	5.08%
Yes, but I will use MA2 anyway and await a fix.	21	35.59%
Yes, but it does not bother me.	5	8.47%
No	30	50.85%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

03-18-2003, 10:41 PM	#1
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	SS Marine Aquarium 2.0 ~ monitor 'clicking' Does your display card/monitor have a longer *negotiation* about which mode/resolution/refresh to operate in with Marine Aquarium 2? If so, we need to hear about it! Reichart and I had a lengthy conversation about WHY this happens. SS Aquarium 99D up through early builds of MA2 have had a "rigged" way of getting into and out of the Aquarium as quickly as possible without a large number of compatibility problems. Starting with Marine Aquarium 2.0, this "rigging" has been removed. Already, we are seeing several reports of DirectX negotiation taking 5-10 seconds and in my case, my monitor clicks thirteen times before the Aquarium comes on. If this happens to you please vote in this topic! I have been assured that a future version of the Aquarium will detect and "learn" what video card you have so that it can use either the "rigged" or "standard" method of negotiating. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-18-2003, 11:01 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	In the original code, I used a brute-force way of switching the monitor to the desired resolution, so it only clicked once. Prolific does it the legal way, which, like most legal things, involves a lot of red tape. An easy work-around is to set the Aquarium to the same resolution (especially bit-depth) as your desktop. Then it should switch instantly. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-18-2003, 11:05 PM	#3
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	I'm using LCD so dont' hear any clicking BUT my screen refreshs twice, maybe there more than twice negotiations but since LCD wont' have clicking sound, I can't compare much. But the start up time is a bit longer(1~2 sec) compare to MA1.1.2 James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

03-18-2003, 11:42 PM	#4
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	I consider 1-2 seconds and 1-2 flashes within acceptable parameters. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-19-2003, 12:20 AM	#5
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	yup....that's why I vote "it does not bother me. " however, I wonder does this problem tightly related to the video card or the monitor type? James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

03-19-2003, 12:31 AM	#6
Franklin J. Flocks Registered Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 19	I just downloaded the trial version of 2.0. It works fine on my monitor using my Arcade FX GForce MX 440-8XAGP nvidea video card. - As with version 1.0 and 1.1, I can view the fish stereoscopically using Elsa Revelator glasses and Win3D with VRCADDYPRO, but it appears that the frame rate is limited to about 62 fps which results in more flicker than I got with the earilier versions in stereo mode. I like 2.0, but I don't think I would be willing to pay a full $20 for it, having paid $20 for the retail boxed version just last month.

03-19-2003, 02:22 AM	#7
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Franklin, It is not necessary to post the same message in 4 places. We understand your concerns. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-19-2003, 05:58 AM	#8
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,374	What Jim says works great, however I get about 15fps less in 32bit than 16bit and here at work that's about 50% of my total frame rate, guess I'll put up with the clicking, I won't have to at home. I don't watch commercials.

03-19-2003, 06:26 AM	#9
Yellow Tang YT Join Date: Jan 2002 Tournaments Won: 1 Location: Germany Posts: 729	No problems here, so far. There's just a 3 second start delay (black screen), no flashes (changing from 1280x960 16 bit desktop to 1152x864 16 bit screensaver).

03-19-2003, 06:59 AM	#10
Derrek Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 186	I run my desktop at 1280x1024 at 32bit, I run the ma2 at 1600x1200 at 32 bit and my monitor only clicks twice, the ma2 is up and running in about 2 seconds. In this version the fish movement does seem to be very smooth compared to the last version.

03-19-2003, 05:34 PM	#11
diverslung underwater comix Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 58	Sometimes my monitor switches twice until it finally runs the right resolution. I run my desktop at 1600 x 1200 x 32 bit and my screensaver at 1600 x 1200 x 16 bit. www.mykeself.de - myself is mykeself

03-19-2003, 05:50 PM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	I'm glad to see that this is much more of an isolated problem than I thought. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-19-2003, 07:54 PM	#13
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,454	For what it's worth only if I set the 16 /32 colors to the opposite of what my monitor is set at do I seem to get a "double" pause. No clicking in the "sound" sense. This is very similar to the effect I get when I change my resolution. GeForce 3 Ti500 Windows 98 SE Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 – 1951) The limits of my language are the limits of my mind. All I know is what I have words for.

03-19-2003, 09:14 PM	#14
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,816	Because that's exactly what it's doing. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

03-19-2003, 11:44 PM	#15
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,947	Originally posted by Ralph For what it's worth only if I set the 16 /32 colors to the opposite of what my monitor is set at do I seem to get a "double" pause. No clicking in the "sound" sense. This is very similar to the effect I get when I change my resolution. GeForce 3 Ti500 Windows 98 SE I'd love to know what monitor you have. I've only ever seen an LCD do this because it does not have a voltage relay switch. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-20-2003, 03:36 AM	#16
igalan Registered Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Barcelona, SPAIN Posts: 5	In my computer it takes 3 secs to start and two or three clicks, but it doesn't bother me. I'm running at 1024x768x32 85 Hz, GeForce3Ti200, Det.41.09, DX 8.2 (who needs DX9 now? )

03-20-2003, 05:49 AM	#17
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,374	Tried it at home last night, I run both my desktop and screen saver at 1600x1200/85Hz/32bit so obviously there are no problems, works better than ever before, very pleased... And limiting the frame rate makes it only use 35% or so of my CPU. Couldn't be happier! I don't watch commercials.

03-20-2003, 08:24 AM	#18
ROBERT CRONSHAW TheMissingLink Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: lytham st annes--uk Posts: 12	I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TRY FOR MYSELF,BUT NO KEYCODE YET.STILL GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT SO I'M TOLD.

03-20-2003, 06:33 PM	#19
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,454	Originally posted by feldon27 I'd love to know what monitor you have. I've only ever seen an LCD do this because it does not have a voltage relay switch. Nothing special. A SAMSUNG SyncMaster 955df.

03-21-2003, 01:45 PM	#20
camorgan Aquaman Dance Party Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 26	With the demo, mine only does this when the scr settings and my monitor settings aren't the same. Can't wait to get my updated key... been a user a long time (.99 days) and seeing 2.0 released made my week! c a m o r g a n www.outpost31.com