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-   Marine Aquarium 3 for Windows (https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=46)
-   -   Jim, where do we go from here! (Redux) (https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7661)

cjmaddy 12-23-2010 02:30 PM

Jim, - I genuinely hope you will find some way to produce that 3D Blu-Ray disk that you desire so, and I wish you every success if you can get one to the CES. - I can see how it just might work in the way you describe.
However, not from the MA3 point of view, but mainly for 3DTVs in general, from my experience and the many comments I've read, I've put together the following thoughts....

It isn't just the glasses that are a pain. (Particularly when you have to wear them over your own glasses). But 3D just doesn't add anything worthwhile to the viewing experience. The novelty IMO very soon wears off. Even 3D movies (at the cinema) are best left as an occasional novelty. - What is far more important is a well acted story!
And as for the new 3DTVs... Who is going to spend thousands on something they donít need for 99.9% of their normal viewing?. - Not many people are going to buy another large TV just for 3D, when there is little or no content available. Someday, in the future, when glasses-less displays arrive, maybe!!! - (But not even then if it means sitting in the one-only 'sweet spot'.)

Also, the 3d experience may work up to a point when you have a massive screen, like at a cinema. But at home, the effect of the action coming out at you through a smaller screen, is not that breath-taking, in fact it can soon become an annoyance. Some have reported that after 3 hrs of Avatar they ended up with an headache lasting for days.

I strongly believe that it is not we the viewers who want 3DTV, it is the 3DTV manufactures, (competing with each other for some imaginary 'Holy Grail'), that want us to want, a 3DTV!

patscarr 12-23-2010 02:35 PM

Good luck on your plan, Jim. Sounds promising.

AKcrab 12-23-2010 05:46 PM

Well these guys make it sound easy to get the 3d file.. It appears that the software they use is open-source on sourceforge. From what I've read Toast will burn the 3d Blu Ray.. So you're only looking at $100 investment..

http://www.3djournal.com/001/artic47.php

(I could be way off, I don't have any way of testing any of this.) ;)

Jim Sachs 12-23-2010 07:30 PM

All of those sites seem to be talking about getting live footage into an AVI movie format. What I need is a program that will do the same for the output from a program. It would seem to be much easier, since the data is already in the frame buffer, and the drivers know whether it's left eye or right eye.

bozpool 12-24-2010 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmaddy (Post 129174)
Someday, in the future, when glasses-less displays arrive, maybe!!! - (But not even then if it means sitting in the one-only 'sweet spot'.)


I couldn't resist,but Toshiba show 3DTV without glasses.

cjmaddy 12-24-2010 05:49 AM

Yes, that's the system that requires all the viewers to sit on top of each other! ;) :TD:

Quote from that link...
Quote:

However, the technology requires a person to be sat in an optimal position to see clear 3D images....

....These limitations are why most manufacturers - including Sony, Samsung and Panasonic - use glasses to generate 3D effects.

feldon34 12-24-2010 06:29 AM

You could modify the Aquarium to produce a series of BMP files. I was actually shocked when I found out that the direct digital output of the Aquarium is not what was used to produce the Marine Aquarium DVD.

Like you said, you've got access to the frame buffer, why not write a series of BMP files directly from the program? You'd need to output the left eye and right eye separately. Once you have two stacks of BMP files, you can feed them into that 3DJournal program.

If having 2 cameras/viewpoints simultaneously is impossible, then you could slow down the animation of the Aquarium and have the camera move or "wiggle" to the left and right by an X unit like .15 to the left then .15 to the right 30 times per second and take a snapshot after each camera move. It would have a horrible strobe/shaking effect to watch it, but it would give you two series of BMP files, one for the left eye, one for the right eye.

If you want to record a DirectX application that's running, the gold standard is FRAPS but it's not free, and it won't give you both eyes.

Jim Sachs 12-24-2010 09:37 AM

That would entail a couple of months of programming. No way I'd make it to CES.

A hi-def, 3D version of Fraps is what I'm looking for.

feldon34 12-24-2010 11:27 AM

I'm not sure why it would require "months" of programming to modify the Aquarium to write BMP files, but ok.

If Picasso were alive today, I don't think he'd be weaving his own canvas, milling the wooden frames, or mining the necessary minerals to mix his paints.

Bob 12-24-2010 12:16 PM

I continue to be amazed that no one on this forum has a copy of, or access to Final Cut Pro or Adobe After Effects. I'd think that Prolific would have some contact that would run the conversion for Jim.

Surely some company would love to have a credit on the DVD just for allowing Jim little time on their computer he would need to produce the 3D MA version.

Bob

Ralph 12-24-2010 02:22 PM

I suspect (know) that some folk on this forum have access to Adobe After Effects, I don't think that is the issue. The problem would be to get Jim and that computer in the same room with as much time it takes for Jim to learn the program, iron out any bugs and post it.

I guess I am confused as to what is the end product. I am gathering a 3D movie of a screen saver... would it not be easier (and more fun) to take a camera into the ocean and make a movie of the real thing.. no collision issues, realistic.. everything.

Seems to me we are encouraging the building of something.. just for the sake of saying it can be done. Challenging, but Jim would need the backing of Bill Gates to do it.

Jav400 12-24-2010 03:25 PM

I'm not certain, but I think mentioning Jim's name in the same sentence with Bill Gates is a tactical disaster, and tatamount to treason. :)

feldon34 12-24-2010 04:55 PM

The issue is not After Effects or any other program.

The issue is getting two simultaneous recordings of the Aquarium suitable for the left and right eyeball.

One way is to rig up the Aquarium to output two sets of BMP files, representing two virtual cameras about 3 inches apart. I would have thought this was fairly easy.

Another way is to record all the actions of the Aquarium such as the direction of all the fish and animation of the lighting, then be able to reproduce those exact movements multiple times. Then you make a recording with FRAPS, move the camera to the right 3 inches, and make another recording with FRAPS. Sort of like a motion control camera (invented in the 1970's) where you need the exact same action multiple times.


And I think Ralph forgets Bill Gates rogering Jim Sachs but good on Microsoft Plus.

nicksteel 12-24-2010 05:58 PM

Fraps 3D
 
http://3dvision-blog.com/fraps-versi...d-s3d-support/

Don't know if this is applicable.

Ralph 12-24-2010 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon34 (Post 129195)
And I think Ralph forgets Bill Gates rogering Jim Sachs but good on Microsoft Plus.

Yes.. that was a bad example of a possible sponsor.. Sorry Jim :eek: But now that you remind me.. I do remember the deal.

Jim Sachs 12-24-2010 07:22 PM

nicksteel - That may be exactly what I need!

nicksteel 12-24-2010 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 129199)
nicksteel - That may be exactly what I need!

I have no glasses, so can't test. It does seem more logical to capture the screen output rather than the program output.

Merry Christmas, Jim and all.
(We're in Napa with the family for the holidays. Retired to the new house in MS this past Spring.)

Jim Sachs 12-24-2010 09:29 PM

OK, I downloaded the latest FRAPS and it almost works. When used with the nVidia 3D Vision system, it does indeed record in stereovision, and saves a proper file. When that file is loaded and played through the 3D Vision Video Player, the image is indeed still 3D.

The only problem is that while recording, the system is only able to maintain a very jerky 14 fps. This is on my Vista system, which is a fairly powerful computer. When not recording, the fps is at 120.

nicksteel 12-25-2010 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 129203)
OK, I downloaded the latest FRAPS and it almost works. When used with the nVidia 3D Vision system, it does indeed record in stereovision, and saves a proper file. When that file is loaded and played through the 3D Vision Video Player, the image is indeed still 3D.

The only problem is that while recording, the system is only able to maintain a very jerky 14 fps. This is on my Vista system, which is a fairly powerful computer. When not recording, the fps is at 120.

I assume you have a fast sata drive. Also, you may find the 1GB file size limit a problem. At least it's a start. We really need someone to test on a a very fast gaming machine.

feldon34 12-25-2010 04:49 AM

FRAPS is a heavy resource drain on a computer.


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