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-   -   ** SereneScreen Marine Aquarium 2.01 !! ** (https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2269)

drfish 03-11-2004 10:01 AM

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. For clarification though, the bottleneck isn't my video card or CPU, it's the 250fps limit, right?

Edit:
Quote:

Originally posted by Edgar
...I myself found that it is better to set the FPS limit ON at about 2-3 fps less than the highest framerate the system can run. This way you get as close to max FPS as before but with much less CPU usage.
:) That's what I wanted to try, but can't because of the slider not going high enough... So yeah, I'm with Morgan on that one...

Edgar 03-11-2004 10:22 AM

DrFish,

At VSync on, the bottleneck is technically DirectX but I say video card because it is in the render portion.

Basically the video card is using up all the extra time waiting for the Vertical blank.

Your system is definitely not even maxed out by the MA2-MD screensaver.

jleslie,

Specially when running on window mode and using the computer at the same time, setting Limit FPS on at a low setting will at least let you work still.

cjmaddy 03-11-2004 10:29 AM

Lets see if you follow this reasoning!

Limit frame rate = On ...... 25/26fps, ... 80+% CPU Usage.

Limit frame rate = Off ..... 31/32fps, ... 80+% CPU Usage

All other settings being equal. .......... Now which one would you chose?

(Note! - The above figures are using the version supplied by Edgar)

surfer, Jim, Michael, etc! - I fully appreciate the reason for having it 'On' - My point is, shouldn't it be made clear that it may be detrimental to have it 'On' - if you do NOT have a super fast CPU ?

And the software HAS made the judgement for me, - by defaulting to 'On'

feldon34 03-11-2004 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edgar
jleslie,

I myself found that it is better to set the FPS limit ON at about 2-3 fps less than the highest framerate the system can run. This way you get as close to max FPS as before but with much less CPU usage.

Absolutely. I've confirmed this myself. I've almost wondered if the Aquarium shouldn't have an automated test "Find ideal FPS limit" where it runs at full bore and takes an average of the FPS and then sets the FPS limit 2-3 below that.

Feature creep!!!

feldon34 03-11-2004 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cjmaddy
Lets see if you follow this reasoning!

Limit frame rate = On ...... 25/26fps, ... 80+% CPU Usage.

Limit frame rate = Off ..... 31/32fps, ... 80+% CPU Usage

All other settings being equal. .......... Now which one would you chose?

I would choose to properly use the Limit Frame Rate feature.

Based on the FPS you are getting, you should set Limit frame rate to 22. Then CPU% should be 10-15%.

Jim Sachs 03-11-2004 11:05 AM

Cliff - a couple of things to bear in mind. First, your situation is unusual. Most machines don't notice the difference whether Limit is on if they are already maxing out at only 30 fps.

Secondly, it's all about avoiding customer-service calls. Someone whose machine locks up from an overheating video card will call or email Prolific, while someone whose Aquarium is running a few fps slow will not.

The amount of email for our tiny crew to handle is already extremely high. There are a lot of copies of the Aquarium out there. A very small percentage actually paid for it, but that doesn't stop the rest from expecting customer support. A conservative estimate might be 20 million copies. If 1 person in 1000 has a machine overheat, that's 20,000 emails.

So that's why we try to default everything not to the position which will make the most people happy, but the fewest people mad. (Hopefully avoiding lynch mobs and other unpleasantness.)

drfish 03-11-2004 11:07 AM

Sounds like they default it to on so as not to unnecessarily heat up super fast CPUs...

Logically [Ha!], I'd hope that anyone that wanted better performace from a low end CPU would uncheck anything that said "limit" without being told they needed to. For a long time now we've known that limit FPS took off a few more frames than it was set to.

Semi-seriously, who needs a readme.txt when they can just come here anyway??? I mean, the developers post here, sometimes within minutes of questions being asked... Not to mention us helpful fans... I'd rather have that for support than a readme myself... Kudos!

Edit: See what I mean? Two posts by Morgan and one by Jim during the time it took me to post this message after replying!

Jim Sachs 03-11-2004 12:13 PM

We aim to please.

Jav400 03-11-2004 12:15 PM

In this case I would quote from a movie. "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one." While everyone, especially Jim, has always worked diligently to make sure that older systems have a chance to run the aquarium, that cannot be the target audience. You have to go with the majority. In this case, technology marches on, and I would guess that there are way more people out there using 1Ghz+ machines and faster video cards than there are using the obverse. So I would choose default settings that reflect this situation.

cjmaddy 03-11-2004 12:33 PM

Jim,
Nice points, and logically stated, - as always! - But unfortunately that doesn't change the facts of what I am getting! :)

drfish,
Of course, we here on this forum are the lucky ones, with lots of help on hand. - But it's those 20 million punters Jim refers to, sending emails, that deserve to have some form of instructions explaining the settings. That's the point I don't seem to be able to get across!

Morgan, OK! .....

Limit frame rate to 22...... 80-% CPU Usage
Limit frame rate to 12 ..... ~50% CPU Usage
Limit frame rate to 5 ...... ~25% CPU Usage

I think I'm going to stick with ..... Limit frame rate = Off ..... 31/32fps, ... 80+% CPU Usage

After all, 1.1wide has been causing no apparent problems ..... ~31fps ..... 100% constant CPU Usage
..... and it's been running for years ........ It makes you think! :)

So, ...... what do you want/expect me to do? - Have no opinion, or slavishly do what you say, without question? ;)
There is always another side to everything, - we don't live in a black and white world! :)

drfish 03-11-2004 01:47 PM

I totally agree with you, like I said above I was only being semi-serious... Of course, any of those 20 million users out there are welcome here as well (preferably the ones who paid for it).

Also, 100% CPU usage is no big deal for me, as most of you know, every CPU I can get my hands on runs maxed out all the time... The only reason I care at all about how much the aquarium uses is because I would like to run it at the same time as my protein folding... This was not possible with eariler versions (though both SSA and the folding@home client ran at idle priority, SSA somehow stole all CPU power), but with MA2 I can set my FPS limit at 62 or so, use a tiny amount of my CPU, and leave the rest for number crunching. :)

BTW, since MA2MD my HTPC now runs the widescreen version full time again (though the TV isn't always on) which makes our living room a much nicer place to be.

Jim Sachs 03-11-2004 02:19 PM

Cliff -

Yes - I agree that Limit = OFF is the best solution for you.

I also agree that a readme page built into the program is a great idea, and hope that Prolific implements it some day.

bklynguy 03-16-2004 11:18 PM

Should I delete MA 2.0 before I install MA 2.01 ( to avoid any conflicts ), will the same code work or do I need a new one ? I looked at the thread , and didn't find any info. Thanks.

Jav400 03-17-2004 04:04 AM

Yes, delete the old version if you are going to continue using MA-MD which includes the widescreen version.

klyntun 03-19-2004 08:04 PM

Jim,
Whatever you did to this new version, it is quite nice. Colors all seem more vibrant, and somehow everything looks even more realistic. I'm now back to using MA almost exclusively as my screensaver of choice. I can hardly wait until there is a 3D background. It is also nice to finally know how to get the starfish on the glass.

Jav,
"Live long and prosper." :D

Jav400 03-19-2004 08:51 PM

Klyntun,

tich tor ang prosper t'hy'la

klyntun 03-19-2004 10:27 PM

:D We need a smilie with the Vulcan peace sign (just for us trekkies).

MadBob 03-22-2004 06:19 PM

If a start in Windowed mode the SS doesn't stay on top, I have to press F twice to go full screen and back to a window before it will stay on top.

handimannbob 03-25-2004 09:50 PM

thanks again jim, new workover of fishies is great. a week after they came out earlier i stopped using them. i have a very low end system and learned a couple of updates ago that setting fps 2-3 under than what i get keeps tank running smoother when it is on for a while. i have several older versions on my machine (because i like the way the fishes move and react with each other better), although i use new version mostly. i was wondering if i took last version, not this one off, will the fishpicker still work. as it is now i can put starfish where i want on ma 2 and cycle different tank set-ups. i have lost about 4fps in ma 2, but will tinker with it to try to get them back...lol....and yes i love the setting at .95000 for wide screen ....that's all i use now..lol

klyntun 03-28-2004 01:24 PM

I've lost all my MAs!
 
I've been doing some housekeeping on my computer, deleting and removing old programs. I removed the earlier versions of MA, and then found out that the current version no longer works. I tried entering my keycode, but the prompt said it was an old keycode and might not work (pretty self-evident!). I removed what was left of that program, redownloaded the new one, and get the same prompt. Help! I was really loving the new version!

sunny 03-28-2004 07:17 PM

klyntun,
try using the sach registry cleaner...

Jav400 03-28-2004 07:34 PM

As far as I know the old version and the new version use the same registry settings, except for a few additions. When you deleted the old version you probably deleted the registry settings for the new one also. Delete it again, run the cleaner, and reinstall the latest version.

klyntun 03-28-2004 08:44 PM

Sunny and Michael,
Thanks for the suggestion. I downloaded and installed the Registry Cleaner (I got a prompt asking if I wanted to enter that into my registry and I said OK), but after reinstalling MA 2, I get the same message about having a keycode that is for an older product. I've sent an email to Prolific to see if they can help.

klyntun 03-29-2004 08:41 PM

Ahhh, how satisfying to get good customer service! I got an email from Prolific today that gave me a new MA 2.0 Upgrade keycode, and walked me step-by-step through cleaning old pieces of it out of my system and installing it again. All is now back to normal. >>thinks "...another satisfied customer..."<<
:cheers:

sunny 03-29-2004 10:24 PM

nice to hear that your ma2 is running ;)..

klyntun 03-30-2004 12:29 AM

:D

Marian Nichols 03-30-2004 04:29 AM

:TU:

I hear your sigh of contentment.

James 03-30-2004 04:46 PM

do they explain to you why is your original keycode cannot work? for some reason? if they plan to switch the old keycode to new, then there must be heaps of people with similar problem like you and I don't think most of them can get out of it from emailing Prolific actively by themself.

klyntun 03-30-2004 08:28 PM

James,
The email I got from Prolific didn't address why my original keycode didn't work. From the body of the email I glean that it had something to do with deleting previous versions and still having bits and pieces of them in the system. As per instructions, I searched out and eliminated previous versions with the .scr on them (I found a few of them). Then I installed Jim's Registry Cleaner (already had), downloaded MA2-MD, disabled VirusScan, set my screen color to 16 bit, re-installed, and entered my new upgrade keycode. For all I know, I could have skipped the first steps and just entered the keycode, but I trust these guys (or gals) from Prolific and wanted to be sure it worked this time. The email was very specific and easy to follow, so I'm guessing just about anyone could work their way through it (in other words, if I could do it, anybody could ;) ). And the response was very fast. Good job, Prolific!

cjmaddy 04-01-2004 04:46 PM

The indirect references made to April 1st on another thread, prompted me to look up my last years epic! :rolleyes:

This resulted in me finding a new way to show the N key effects more clearly, on the caudal peduncle.

That April 1st thread made reference to the [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F] 'freeze' effect in MA2. - I checked it out and it still works in MA2MD. So if you toggle the N key whilst the fish is frozen in centre screen, you clearly see the 'ripple' effect!

........ And NO! - this is NOT an April fool! - I've said elsewhere that I'd had a day off that this year! :D

MadBob 04-02-2004 05:45 AM

Holy crap I never did that one before! (although I did spend a few minutes looking for the fish nipple until I re-read your post!) :) why is that in there? is there a good technical reason?

I also just found out that CTRL+T re-randomises all the fish.

Jav400 04-02-2004 06:24 AM

ok folks, we have been thru this one before. Jim made that control specifically for personal reasons. I use it for capturing shots of the fish for web page work. It DOES cause problems, and is not a supported feature. In the long run its best if you leave that one alone.

Tiny Turtle 04-02-2004 06:40 AM

Well, it still pisses the fish off :)

On my machine here at work I had to bring up the settings screen and click ok in order for it to kick in (and out). The combo removed the fish and the upper half of the coral (but kept the background fade).

/Tiny Hostility
__________________________________________
I wish I was a sentimental ornament you hung on the Christmas tree,
__________________________________________

Jim Sachs 04-02-2004 10:23 AM

Yes, it's just there for anyone who needs to capture screen shots of the fish. It brings whatever fish is in slot 1 "front-and-center" in a spot with no background elements in the way. No provision is made for continuing the Aquarium after doing this, as the fish positions would be all messed up. It is assumed that after Print Screen is pressed, the user would shut down the Aquarium and bring up a paint program to work with the image they just captured.

cjmaddy 04-02-2004 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Sachs
.... No provision is made for continuing the Aquarium after doing this, as the fish positions would be all messed up. It is assumed that after Print Screen is pressed, the user would shut down the Aquarium and bring up a paint program to work with the image they just captured.
That really surprises me. I have seen no ill effects here at all. I just press [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F] a second time, and the fish all resume their normal movement!

Jim Sachs 04-02-2004 11:36 AM

Fish #1, which you grabbed away from whatever it was doing, still has all it's former parameters associated with it. If it was in the rear tank, or passing from one tank to the other, or up against one of the edges (or any number of other scenarois) - it will continue to act in the manner dictated by its previous position and velocity. Often, it will pass through objects expecting a boundary limit that just isn't there. The other fish will also be affected by unexpected collisions.

cjmaddy 04-02-2004 11:54 AM

Fair enough! - You should know! ;) - :):):)

I will now bow gracefully away, and assume I have just been lucky! :) ......... Thanks Jim! :TU:

clifdene 04-02-2004 11:57 AM

For what worth! I press Print Screen,the fish hesitate and then continue on as if nothing has happened. I can then paste to Paint or whatever whenever I wish to acess the image.

Jim Sachs 04-02-2004 12:38 PM

Print Screen alone has no effect on the fish. We're talking about [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F].

Mage Joe 04-06-2004 01:45 PM

Just FYI--

I've been away from the forum for a while and just discovered 2.01 today...so immediately downloaded it for a try.

For what it's worth, running on my G450 with two monitors it spans both monitors with fish moving between monitors. :-)Unfortunately it runs (or crawls) at 1.7fps (without bubbles) on this system. :-(

[v1.1wide runs fine on this system but anything after that is a dog...so that's nothing new or specific with v2.1.]

Joe


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