Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

From tim4web, 6/12/01 1:47:08 am
From jimsachs, 6/12/01 9:32:56 am
Morgan - Can you add these to the wishlist please ?

Sawfish
 

I did not found a Sawfish in the Wishlist.

Re: Sawfish
 

What's a Sawfish? Are they attractive fish that are pleasing to the eye?

Re: Cycle fish every __ minutes
 

It's been added.

Here is a picture of a Sawfish
 

home.mira.net/~areadman/sawfish.htm

I think a Sawfish would look nice in the aquarium.
(in a larger version)

Some suggestions
 

A cowfish and a Raccoon Butterfy fish
www.pibythebay.homestead.com/fishpage.html

Here are good site with some new fish

marineaquarium.com/mike421.htm

marineaquarium.com/mike422.htm#top2

Re: Some suggestions
 

Raccoon Butterfly would be hard because it would require 2 textures and the texture would have to change/fade depending on lighting conditions. Jim has so much to add betweeen now and October it might get put on the back burner. Sorry.

Boxfish is on the list of possible special creatures. I don't know if he's chosen which species of Boxfish he'd like.

Thanks for the suggestions and photos!

Re: Some suggestions
 

Morgan - you've added my suggestion, but not Revolve 360's. Jim said he would consider both. A frequency slider by each fish would allow you to select "always", "never" or somewhere inbetween. Something would have to be done to limit the number of "always" selections to 7, but, as said, Jim was going to consider it.

Regards, Tim

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

Morgan/Jim,

Here's a couple of ideas that are off shoots of the Camera Panning feature. They may have already been discussed, then again, maybe not. Nothing wild or crazy...

* Speed Slider - would allow the user to adjust the speed at which the camera pans left to right. I may have been the person who originaly requested this one, but I can't recall.

* Follow Fish - I know that someone once suggested this idea, I think their idea was that the camera should follow the fish in full 3D ala first person behind the fish, well my idea is a bit less complicated. Why not use the Camera Panning feature to allow the camera to follow the actions of a single fish (or school of 3)? Jim, would this be too difficult or would it likely eat up too many of your work cycles trying to impliment? Another variation on this idea would be to have a setting that allows the camera to pan to follow the actions of a fish/school for "x" amount of time, then randomly move on to another fish/school and so on.

And for an idea that I don't think we've discussed previously -

* Night and Day light cycles - have the lights in the aquarium cycle to match that of real world lighting (as closely as possible anyway) by checking to see what the real world time is.

You could have the aquarium check the PC's system time each time it loads up and adjust the lighting to match that time of day and as long as the aquarium is left running, it would cycle the lights according to the actual time.

- DL

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

That would be rather boring to have the tank lit for 12 hours a day and then dark for 12 hours. And the amount of algae in the tank would go sky high if you left the lights on for 12 hours. The fish would be dead in a few days. Also, we wouldn't get to see the Eel during the day, as it would always be in hiding (one of the behaviors Jim wants to add). And if a Raccoon Butterfly WAS added, we'd never see it with its dark coloring.

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

Morgan, are you ignoring my last post ?

If so, for goodness sake why ?!?!!

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

tim4web,

You need to acquire some patience. It will suit you well in this world.

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

Actually, a 12-hour photoperiod, while more than I'd recommend, is still right at the highest end of acceptable. You do run the risk of an algae bloom, but algae is more dependent on the level of phosphates and nitrates in the tank than on light. I certainly don't think you'd kill your fish within a couple of days just by leaving the lights on for 12 hours. Some people even say 14 hours is OK, depending on what you keep in the tank. Me, I'd recommend about an 8 hour MH light period, with a 30-60 minute actinic period at beginning and end of the day.

Also, for the wish list -- I'd love to see the rare and beautiful candy basslet!

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

Morgan,

Ok, ok, I'll admit the Night and Day cycle idea is not the most exciting idea that I've ever come up with by far (not much thought put into it) and I have come up with some pretty good ones in the past which are now on the wish list (and some not) with a thumbs up:

Wishlist
=====
* Intricate rock formations with caves (so fish can swim through)
* Sea Floor Backgrounds (Photos)
* Seaweed or Kelp
* Track lighting

Non-Wishlist
=========
* Camera positioned in the upper left or right corners of the tank looking down on a 3/4 angle view of the entire tank length wise (shot down by Jim for a good reason though).
* Selectable bubble column positions
* Selectable bubble column widths (2x wide, 4x wide)
* Mated pairs (2 of the same species will stay together as if mates) - not on the wishlist, but I believe Jim is eventually going to impliment it.

So you'll have to forgive me if I slip up and offer some lamers once in a while, I think I tripped and unplugged my brain the other day. :D

Don't get me wrong though, I wasn't suggesting that this be the ONLY lighting solution for the aquarium, I was just suggesting this as one "possible" lighting option in the settings menu.

- DL

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

If you look back at the posts, you'll see that Jim said he'd consider the ideas 3 weeks ago, and even now only one of the two ideas have been added.

How long does it take to add a line to a list ?

The idea I've been reminding you about isn't even mine - it's Revolve360's. I find this frustrating because this is how good ideas get lost.

Even if it does take a significant amount of time to add an item to the list, it certainly doesn't take a long time to reply in this thread to say you will add the item. Please do so.

Re: The Sachs Aquarium WISHLIST
 

Maybe there is a solution for the overlay mode:

there is a program out there that uses overlay mode to show 3d scenes on the desktop! I don't know if this might help, but Jim you may check it out for yourself

the url is
www.dreamrender.com/

regards
Multivitamin

Fish suggestion
 

First of all let me say that words can not express how great I think this program is. I have been familiar with Jim Sachs work since Defender of the Crown (I was a hardcore Amiga person) and this high level of quality work seems natural for someone who has been in one of the most innovative areas of computers and computer graphics. I have bought the deluxe version and I could not be more pleased.

Now to the point :-) I have read the list and didn't see that anyone suggested the Nautalis creature yet. I didn't even know that such a creature was an aquarium creature until I saw 2 of them at the local marine fish store. They are very interesting to the eye and I thought I might as well suggest it.

Here is a link if you don't know what one is:
is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/Npompil.html

Re: Fish suggestion
 

I have considered the Chambered Nautilus, but all the specimens I've seen are rather large.

Re: Fish suggestion
 

Actually, I believe that someone has already suggested the Nautilus in a previous post, but it's been a while and Morgan and Jim may not have caught the original post.

I agree though, it's definately a very unique creature to say the least. I've seen them at local aquariums here in San Diego and at Sea World. Their motions are very slow and smooth, kind of relaxing to watch them move around. I think they would be a nice addition to the aquarium.

- DL

Re: Fish suggestion
 

Jim,

Since all the fish and inverts in the aquarium are supposted to be juveniles anyway, why not just make a smaller version of the Nautilus to fit the scale of the aquarium and the other fish?

- DL

Re: Fish suggestion
 

I need to see one to make sure they look the same, only smaller. Many marine creatures are totally different as juveniles.

Re: Fish suggestion
 

Steve, Tim, Lindsey, distinguished guests who I have ignored and neglected. First the good news...

I had a moment to completely update the Wishlist with everything you guys requested (hope I didn't miss anything). It SHOULD be all there.

Now the bad news...

Jim looked at the list and gave me honest opinions about the likelihood of those requests happening between now and 2019.

Anxious to add the Nautilus as soon as we find evidence that the Juvenile looks similar.

Re: Fish suggestion
 

Jim,

Good point, hopefully you'll find one on display somewhere or maybe Ryan has access to one. Either way, you'll still need a good frame of reference for how the creature moves through the water and reacts to other fish, so you'll need some video of it or something like that at the very least.

- DL

Re: Fish suggestion
 

"Now the bad news...

Jim looked at the list and gave me honest opinions about the likelihood of those requests happening between now and 2019."

Does this mean that the items on the wishlist that have a thumbs up have now changed status to a question mark or thumbs down? Hmmmm, guess I'll cruise on over to the wishlist after this post to check it out. In any case, thanks for the news update Morgan, much appreciated.

- DL

Update:

Wow, looks like the bulk of my ideas went down the tubes :( No biggie though, I know Jim has a busy production schedule to keep and some times stuff just doesn't happen. It's the nature of software development, a lot of the time you end up having to trim the fat and be realistic about your (and everyone else's) expectations.

" Camera 'Panning to Follow a Fish' Settings + Keyboard shortcut"

Not too sure where the "+ Keyboard shortcut" part of that came from (Morgan?). I didn't suggest that, hmmm, doesn't matter though.

- DL

Re: Fish suggestion
 

The keyboard shortcut is there purely from my familiarity with my favorite game for the Playstation, Gran Turismo.

On this game, when you are watching the replay of the race, there are keyboard shortcuts (Up and Down) to switch between which of the 6 cars you are watching and following. I figured your "panning to follow one fish" feature would be more interesting if you could press one of two keys to cycle through the fish to pick a new one to follow.

Since going to the Settings screen resets all the Random fish slots, it would have to be a keyboard shortcut if you want interactivity of any kind.

If this isn't the nature of your idea, let me know and I'll excise the "+ keyboard shortcut" part.

Re: Fish suggestion
 

Thanks for updating the list Morgan.

Regards, Tim

Re: Fish suggestion
 

"On this game, when you are watching the replay of the race, there are keyboard shortcuts (Up and Down) to switch between which of the 6 cars you are watching and following. I figured your "panning to follow one fish" feature would be more interesting if you could press one of two keys to cycle through the fish to pick a new one to follow."

Ahhhhh yes, Gran Turismo, I remember it well. :) Many a late night was spent playing quite possibly the single best racing game to ever grace a game console. Part 2 however, now that's a different story altogether, didn't like it one bit. I would say that I'm still VERY anxious to get my mits on GT3, but I've already played a pre-release version and I'm no wear near as impressed with it as I thought I was going to be. Guess I'll wait and see how the release version plays before I make my final judgement.

Anyway, I hadn't actually considered that type of functionality within the feature that I described, but it does seem to fit my line of thinking. Oh well, no need to update it either way since Jim told you to give it a thumbs down. Thanks though...

- DL

Nautalis Speculation....
 

I don't know how old the 2 were that I saw at the fish store but they looked exactly the same as the one in the picture I posted, white with brown highlights. They were both approx. 4 inches from end to end and about 2 inches wide. Both seemed to get around just fine in the 75 gallon(I believe) reef tank. They are very cool, kinda remind you of a submarine or something because they just kinda hang there and use their little "nozzle" to either pull water in or squirt it out causing motion.

Hope this helps.

Chris Riffey(forgot this last time :-)

Re: Nautalis Speculation....
 

That size would be just right for the Aquarium. I guess we can officially add them to the wishlist.

Re: Nautalis Speculation....
 

Guest,

Do you by any chance have a digital camera or know of anyone that does? If so, then you/they should snap some shots of those Nautalis and post them here on the forum for us to have a look at.

The company I work for has a digital camera for the work we do, if there is any way that I can squeeze in the time, maybe I'll take it down to Sea World or the Birch Aquarium and see if I can take some photos next weekend.

- DL

Re: Nautalis Speculation....
 

Sea World won't have them, but I think Birch does.

Re: Nautalis Speculation....
 

Are you sure Jim? The last time I was there I'm pretty sure I remember seeing some in one of the tanks. Then again, I've traveled quite a bit and been to my share of public aquariums over the years, so I suppose it's possible that I might be remembering someplace else.

In any case, when was the last time you actually visited Sea World? Myself, well I have yearly passes for my family, so we tend to frequent the park every few months or so. We've also been members of the San Diego Zoolical Society for many years. In fact, my wife and I share a common interest in pets and wildlife conservation. We've owned a rather large assortment of pets over the years. Everything from dogs, cats, rabbits (used to have a breeding business), ferrets, possums (foreign and domestic), birds, reptiles, fish, guinea pigs, horses, lllamas, and so on. Currently we're at an all time low with our 2 dogs (mini-Dacshund, Welsh Corgi), 1 cat, 1 guinea pig, 1 white faced Cockateil, and our 2 horses. Oops, looks like I sort of got off topic there for a second, sorry about that. :)

Anyway, let me see what I can do. Although I wouldn't be too hopeful as to the quality of the images due to the low light conditions in both the Sea World and Birch exhibits.

- DL

Re: Chase-cam feature
 

DL, I don't know if you've ever seen a screensaver called VR Man's Aquarium, but it had exactly the kind of chase cam feature you describe. The screensaver featured a completely 3D freshwater aquarium that was in a small room.

You could move the camera around manually, right into the aquarium itself if you want (and the lighting changed accordingly, to slightly more subdued, when you were in the aquarium), or you could move outside the aquarium into the room, and eventually zoom out far enough into the 3D room so that the aquarium was a relatively small object against the far wall.

You could also choose to follow any particular fish in the tank. I found this more nausea-inducing than enjoyable. Those fish moved fast!

You could also feed the fish, though the fish didn't actually "eat" the food. They just sort of herded up to it, and the food "disappeared." Their mouths never opened.

You could also make your own textures for the gravel and background of the tank. I impressed my family by firing up the tank with a picture of my niece and nephew as the tank background. :)

The main problems with this screensaver were:
1. The fish were nowhere near as realistic as those in the Sachs aquarium. Not even remotely close.

2. Can you say clipping problems? This screensaver had tons of them.

3. VR Man's screensavers all had the same annoying flaw: The camera angle cuts were random and were sudden, not smooth. So the camera would be floating over the tank for a while, then -- cut -- you're following a rapidly swimming fish, then -- cut -- you're on the gravel looking up at the fish, then -- somebody give me some Tylenol.

Nonetheless it was the first aquarium screensaver that actually impressed me. Nowhere near the Sachs one, but pretty good for its time.

Re: Nautilus
 

Also, they have chambered nautiluses at Sea World. However, as far as I knew, they are NOT reef animals, so I think they'd look pretty silly in a brightly lit reef tank. Yes, I know this is an "idealized" tank, but nautiluses are nocturnal creatures that normally live anywhere from 100 to 600 meters down (usually on the deeper end of the scale rather than the shallow), and in fact Sea World's nautilus tank is always very dimly lit. They also like their water temperature no higher than about 70 degrees F, too cold for a reef tank.

I've also never seen them have juvenile nautiluses. The ones in the tank are pretty dang big. Big enough to take up most of the Sachs Aquarium's screen space.

Juvenile nautiluses DO look almost exactly like their parents, so if you can find a good photo of a juvenile, I suppose that something like that could be included in the tank. Here is a photo of a baby: www.cornell-iowa.edu/~n-b...o/Geo5.htm

I sort of question Guest's report of seeing them at a local fish store, swimming around in a reef tank. If that's true, he has a better fish store than I've got! I can't even get mine to carry marble hatchetfish. :) I have NEVER seen any fish store carry nautili for sale as pets. Interesting. But since they're nocturnal, I don't think you'd normally ever see a nautilus swimming around "happily" in a brightly lit reef tank.

Re: Nautilus
 

Great article, thanks for the link.

I was at Sea World about 4 or 5 months ago, and don't remember seeing any Nautili. However, my memory may be clouded by the fact that I was so disappointed by their reef displays in general -- a few dirty, poorly stocked tanks. The average aquarium shop had 10 times as many fish and invertebrates.

The Birch Aquarium was much better, as was the Long Beach Aquarium.

The Nautilus will go on the "maybe" list. It's nocturnal nature is not that much of a problem, as I plan to have several creatures which only come out when the lights are down.

Re: Nautilus
 

Hmm, that's interesting about Sea World. I had always thought that their marine displays were at least moderately enjoyable (though nowhere near the Long Beach Aquarium or Shedd's) -- but then again, that's not really the focus of Sea World. Most people head straight for the shows. (Tourist tip: As soon as you enter the gates at Sea World San Diego, head in a clockwise direction. Almost everyone else will be going counterclockwise. Head straight for the tidepools, the marine aquarium, and the freshwater aquarium. Forget about the early morning shows. Then, after the bulk of the crowd has gone to the majority of the shows and start to head to the aquarium displays as an "afterthought," go see the afternoon shows. If you play it right, you'll have even more time after those shows to go back through the shark, moray eel and aquarium displays for a second time.)

Hey, what was the name of that LFS that has 10 times more variety than the Sea World displays? That fish store has a new customer! :)

Seriously, though, maybe Sea World has deteriorated since the last time I was there. Anyone remember Marineland of the Pacific? As a kid, I remember them having a heck of a lot more aquarium displays than Sea World ever had. The focus was more on that than shows, though they had shows also.

Also, anyone been to Scripps in La Jolla? Somehow I've never gotten over to that one, even though I've stayed in hotels close to it. Any good? Or is that the one that is named "Birch" now?

Re: Nautilus
 

The Stephen Birch Aquarium is the part of Scripps Institute in La Jolla that is open to the public. Fairly small, but a very nice place.

I remember Marineland very well. Even as a kid in the '50s, I would head straight for the numerous marine tanks while everyone else went to the dolphin or "Bubbles the Whale" shows. My mother now lives across the street from where it was.

I haven't heard of Shedd's, where's that?

Re: Nautilus
 

Actually, apostrophe-s doesn't belong. It is the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. Went there just once. Really cool place, at least when I was there.


http://www.sheddaquarium.org/

Re: Chase-cam feature
 

"DL, I don't know if you've ever seen a screensaver called VR Man's Aquarium, but it had exactly the kind of chase cam feature you describe. The screensaver featured a completely 3D freshwater aquarium that was in a small room."

Ah yes, VRMAN. I used to follow his screensaver efforts with a fair amount of interest and yes I do remember his fish screensaver, not a bad piece of work. Then he dropped his site and decided to share another one with some friends (www.3amigos.com or something to that effect), but now I believe they're gone.

As for your comments about the issues he had with his screensavers (camera cuts, angles, quality of fish models and textures compared to Jim's, clipping, etc.), I completely agree. However, at the very least I will give him points for making his screensavers fairly interactive which kept them interesting.

He had several other screensavers as well which included a flight screensaver that showed a person flying remote controlled airplanes and I remember another he had that was in development, a space-based screensaver which was going to show an intersteller war between several different races, but I don't believe he ever finished it.

The one screensaver of his that graced my PC screens fairly often was 3D TidalForces. You can still find at:

www.3dfiles.com/screensav...rces.shtml

- DL

Re: Nautilus
 

"Also, anyone been to Scripps in La Jolla? Somehow I've never gotten over to that one, even though I've stayed in hotels close to it. Any good? Or is that the one that is named "Birch" now?"

The original aquarium at Scripps was replaced by Stephen Birch. It does have a very nice set of displays, although it is a bit small as Jim stated. The original Scripps aquarium was actually down the hill from Birch on the campus.

- DL

FYI:
The original Scripps Aquarium of Oceanography actually had a preserved Coelacanth. It had deteriorated somewhat over time, but real and very cool none the less.