You would sell it to a lot more people if you added a Burning Flag option ;)

vandalism...:(

As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real.

aren't this against the flagpride theme "show your patriotism".
do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags?
although its in digital works and fun to watch, i don't like the sound of it:(

2. Q: do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags?

A: Hmmm, don't people ask for God to be on "thier" side in a sports game? Doesn't this mean that the otherside would "not have god?"

Perhaps patriotism for some is both pride in thier own flag, at the expense of everyone elses.

Perhaps some people, like Koreans, just get a kick out of running the Japanese flag up the pole, and burning it! Something they would never do in person, or perhaps even admit in public, but they would never-the-less enjoy doing.

To each thier own, for each thier own kind.

God does not side anyone...remember that...
People who asked for God's help is just to boost up ones spritual and innerself...it is the physical strength which helps them out...and morallity is important too.
different cultures have different believes so, doesn't mean that there is only one God..
God only help him who only help himself out...

ok ok.. i'm gonna stop this or else i'm like giving a sunday service in church....:o

in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example?;)

1. Q: in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example?
A: Because, patriotism and god are similar, they are both arbitrary constructs, opinions. I don’t believe in either, so to have it suggested that patriotism is presented as something substitive, as an argument for a construct just as arbitrary (such as burning a flag, or wearing one as a diaper) seems as ludicrous (to me) as asking for a god to side with one half a whole team. Patriotism is asking for one to side with one half of a whole team.

What comes first, your country, or your earth?

In the grand scale of things, flags separate people, far more than they bring them together. To quote Eddy Izzard,

British Soldier: “We stole countries with the cunning use of flags,” “Yeah. Just sail around the world and stick a flag in. ‘I claim India for Britain!’
Indian: ‘You can’t claim us—we live here! Five hundred million of us!’
Brittish Soldier: ‘Do you have a flag? No flag, no country.’ ”

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/...atures/n_8450/

I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right?

/Tiny Expression

1. Q: I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right?

A: Correct, right. I can sum this up with one simple statement….


“Ceci n’est pas une pipe.”

If you don’t get it, then you don’t get it.

No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it.

Perhaps you could humour my desire for a more elaborate answer? Please?

P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well.

/Tiny Need For Prisons Anymore

whooooa...things getting a little heated and out of hand here....

peace be with you all...

how about different back grounds...like fire works on certain holidays..or night sky with spot light on the flag type things?

Solution ;)

Oh dear. I guess Calle doesn't play Grand Theft Auto either. :)

Oh, but I do. And believe me, I saw that one coming, but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression.

I agree, Tiny. That's a dousy of a can of worms to be opening though... I won't say anything quite yet, maybe this discussion will take a turn for the less controversial... But if it doesn't, I'll try to sneak in a few comments before the thread gets locked...

BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention...

1. Q: No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it.
A: Yes, this is your opinion.

2. Q: P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well.

A: I believe that people do what people want to do, and to a greater degree…what they can get away with. No matter how many times I watch a Road Runner cartoon, I do not act out in any manner to the Road Runner, even if we have very similar personalities.

3. Q: …but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression.
A: Funny, I was reasoning that you were an objectivist…I guess I was wrong LOL

I can save a lot of back and forth here…we simply disagree. You would not like living in my world (a metaphorical construct), and I do not like living in what is already ostensibly your world. In my world there are no “bad” word. There is no censorship, burning flags (for example) has no “list of rules” because it has no real meaning. If you bought the flag, you can burn “your” flag. If there is a 10 for 1 sale, you can build a bonfire.

4. Q: BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention...
A: No, just an intellectual bake off. And, be careful, I consider “soon” to be a four letter word…which of course…is why I use it so often.

My Fav commentary ever.

I know, that's why I put it in quotes... :)

http://salwen.com/tools.html :)

PR is the other guy's problem. :)

True.

Also, I apply a simple formula. We currently have one Addy, but if we promote positive PR, then we might add more Addys (or is that Addi?). They would definitively gang up on me, that can’t be good.

I’m thinking of becoming a surgeon, I am often told I have the bed side manner of a surgeon. :)

*wonders if Frank is reading the forums these days* :)

;)

At the risk of stirring things up again (though that is truly not my intention), it seems to me that the burning of a flag is just another valid form of political expression, a statement that one is in strong disagreement with the current government or administration. Granted, there is the aspect of vandalism for destroying a piece of cloth, but it is only a symbol of an artificial political construct, for better or worse, and one which is likely to change again anyway in the very short term.

What scares me far more is the occasional practice of book burning, with the accompanying implication that ignorance is better than knowledge, that superstition is better than wisdom, and that one belief system has the right to anihilate another belief system. That way lies fanaticism, and that's when the trouble *really* starts.

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this flag burning debate, but as a US citizen, I just can't help myself...

I'm the first to admit that the US has it's political and social problems. And I get just as mad about it as the next person. But I don't think that burning a flag of my country is an expression of free speech, I feel it's should be a criminal act.

If you are that dissatisfied with this country, get out! Too many of my friends, our fathers, and brothers have died to give you the right to burn the very flag, the symbol of the country they died to protect. I'm sorry I can't abide it.

Answer me this, how many people burning flags have served in thier countries military? Call me a patriot, hell, call me a capitalist pig, I don't really care. (That's where your right to free speech comes in). But don't burn the symbol of the country that so many have died for.

Just leave and make room for someone else who really wants to be here.

Flame off....

P.S. I'm not really mad or upset by this thread, but I needed to get that off my chest. I feel better now, and will now slink away and hide from the barage of replies I have probably invoked....

1. Q: I feel it's should be a criminal act.
A: What is the crime? You got your feelings hurt?

I’m not sure what being a capitalist has to do with being patriotic. But, I too am both, and strongly. I’m so strongly a patriot that there is nothing you can do to undermine my belief in America. Burning our flag is your expression. It is a great way to show others you are angry about something. Knock your self out. Gather together people to vote your system into affect. If you fail, try again. Try (within the constraints of our system) to make your point.

Reich,
I'm a bit unsure about the term objectivist so I can't really respond too that before chatting up Google, but let me try and explain myself:

Like I originally said, I don't have a problem with flag burning, (nor do I grasp what it has to do with capitalism). As far as I'm concerned you can add the feature of someone urinating on the flag though I feel sorry for the poor sod who gets a buzz out of looking at a burning/pee-stained flag. I pity the way censorship is tacked on so much of (apparently especially the U.S.) society. I don't think I would agree on the idea of the current "world" (situation) could/should be labeled as "mine".

So you don't believe anyone will use ACME dynamite to blow up their neighbors parakeet after watching some Looney Toons (sp?), – Fine, me neither. I was objecting to the opposite situation, that someone set on blowing up the next-door pet would put all such plans to rest just by watching Wylie & RR.

Thanks for taking the time to read this far, I'll shut up soon.

I've tried to think this over a little bit more and I can't say that I don't want burning to be added because it's morally wrong or offfensive, just that it would be a bit tasteless and juvenile. How's that? It was just the blanket statement that as long as it's not real it's perfectly ok. Like a collapsable WTC addon for Ms FlightSim. – Not illegal, but who would want to be associated with such a product?

To conclude once more to make sure I get across. I have no problem with flag burning being integrated into FotW. Please feel free to do so AFAIC.

/Tiny Truce

P.S.
I think it would be "Addi" too ;)

P.P.S.
A quick search on "objectivist" helped me to understand that it wuold take me quite some (boring) time to be able to understand that joke. Those people sure like their long words, don't they?

1. Q: I don't want burning to be added because it's morally wrong or offfensive, just that it would be a bit tasteless and juvenile. How's that?
A: GREAT! We totally agree.

There was a famouse court case in America back in the 60s. The case was basically against a movie theater which showed some nudity in a movie (your country would laugh at this case, it was a French movie called The Lovers). The judge called it “pornography” By today’s standards it would be called “boring.”

The “judge” lost the case (since it was really him who had to make the final call), and commented on pornography (which he could not define as a crime), “I know it when I see it.”

Do you want to live in a world where people tell you what is what because “they know it when they see it?” We do!

Tiny, you have the makings of a great Objectivist, but it requires a little training and practice. Not that you would necessarily want to be an objectivist, I’m not really an objectivist, but it is important and useful to understand objectivism completely when engaging arguments about “opinion.”

If you were going to start running for exercise, would you “just” run, or would you do many exercises, and improve your diet in order to be a healthy well rounded runner? Debating, opinion, and life views are like this.

Yes, learning about Objectivism is difficult and time consuming, but once grasped, it will completely change your approach to almost everything…even if you do not agree with all the tenets.

May I truly suggest to you (and everyone) read Atlas Shrugged. It stands on its own as a great book (very long). Worth reading every page, or get it on Tape and enjoy it for several weeks when driving to work. But it is the fastest way to grasp objectivism.

But, in a nutshell, objectivism is a painful process (that gets easier over time) of undermining your own preconceived-culturally–inspired-religiously-controlled belief systems, and throwing them away in favour of what is true.

A simple example is to go back in time, and consider how many of your current views would land you in prison, even in the same culture, or religious environment.

I often feel that I have been “dropped off” in this century, and I fear speaking of the world being round.

Me too, Reichart. :)

Reichart is actually very lucky to be living in this century and this country. In other times and places he would have been burned at the stake for embracing the Randian philosophy :)

:)

Cool, we seemed to have reached a (slightliy fatigue-driven) consensus here.

I (apparently incorrectly) assumed that cheesy and juvinile were negative aspects, and responded to that. I'm dropping the issue then.

I just might have a look at yer manual of life, but trying to assimilate that kind of information (and in English!) while driving might be a little more than my masculinely (sp?) single-tasking brain could handle...

/Tiny Stripe

Jeeeze people I was joking about the burning flag :)

Funny, I joke about everything...

And the funnier I find it, the less funny others tend to find it.

oops, gotta’run, some angry villiagers are running up my lawn with pitch forks yelling something about “burn him at the stake.”

…again…

You should go live in France, Reichart. They don't burn steaks there. Quite the reverse. ;);)

So...your advice is to send me...a Prussian...to France.

Oh yeah, they will "love me" there.

Thanks Wizard...

What? Cutting?

You're cool, to each his own. I don't want to burn my nation's flag but now there are some others I might consider.

( Link removed )

:D