You've jumped right in there with both feet Patrick! ..... IIMSS!

Why answer a question with a question? - Why not try an answer?

I repeat, (ie, please read!) ....... the proponents focus can become blinkered, objectivism goes out the window!

Listen to each other! .......... talk! ........... don't just go out there and kill!



ps, - If burning the bloody screensaver would stop all this crap, - I'd do it immediately! :)

Jim,
I'm not being ironic, but I didn't get that. Could you rephrase it a little?

Pat,
I dunno, kill two other Norwegians and wait for 'em to retaliate in turn?

Look, I know there wasn't that many options left for GWB and his boys but to charge after Osama with everything they had. It's a Devil's alternative – You got to act, but if you do, people will get hurt. I just want everybody to lay off the "Everything we do is right and it serves those idiots right to live in caves because we got our skyscraper and 2000 people blown to bits". Never mind that Ali bin Afghan hadn't even heard of the U.S. of A. before his wife got killed.

Perhaps it was what had to be done, but at least have the common decency to feel sorry for those, just as innocent, victims as well as your own instead of pissing on their flag!

/Tiny Dragon's Teeth

Your implicit assumption is that this picture is somehow contemporary, reflecting the current geopolitical realities, and indicates a continuing resentment toward Afghanistan in general. What if the picture had been taken right after 9/11, before any action had been taken against the Taliban government of Afghanistan? Would that make the sentiment (antagonism toward Afghanistan) more understandable, if still inappropriately expressed?

I am indeed sorry for all the victims of that (ongoing) struggle in Afghanistan. In this particular case, at least an attempt has been made to change the situation (hopefully for the better) in that country, as opposed to lobbing bombs/missiles at the country in "retaliation" (your "kill two Norwegians" approach). The latter approach was tried by "WJC and his boys" (Bill Clinton, for those following along at home), to use your turn of phrase, without much success.

Anyone else notice the link to the picture has been removed?

Does that mean we have to stop now?

Ralph, without directly answering your question about who is more free, I do love that you equate paying taxes with a loss of freedom, but am truly bewildered by equating a “free market” with this loss.

In every single thing you listed, those “are” my examples of freedoms.

Taxes/Insurance: a system where we attempt to work as a team to free up local resources and incurred costs, and spread them across the entire family/clan/city/state/country. Just the idea of a country without taxes makes my skin crawl.


Addy: ps, - Would it be alright to burn the bloody screensaver?
A: In what cause would you burn it in? the problem is, the screen saver is designed to stop burn in! I suggest Burning it to a CD, and then burning the CD.

Michael (B),
"My Kill two Norwegians approach" was written with irony. The thought was that Pat would see that then they would kill three Swedes and we would kill four of them until we had an outright war which I can't imagine was to his liking.

Let's assume the picture was taken right after 9-11 (which I think/hope too). – My assumption – implicit or not – was that the posting of the picture represented something of an opinion that this was an acceptable action to take. Hopefully it wasn't and further pictures with similar content should IMO be added to the list of things not wanted to be seen by "moms and ten-year-olds" on this forum.

/Until Tomorrow – Gotta go

Tiny - Feeling sorry for people is America's stock-in-trade. We are the Kings of Sorry. Never in the history of the world has a nation felt SO sorry for practically everyone. We spend unimaginable amounts of money developing weapons which cause the least amount of innocent casualties, when we could easily press one button and vaporize the whole problem. We endlessly debate the morality of every action, until the very concept of right and wrong loses all meaning. We go bankrupt feeding, housing, clothing, healing (and even arming) those who would destroy us. Then we mortgage our children's future, and do it some more. Sorry has achieved nothing. Sorry has made us the most hated nation on Earth, and we're sick of it. If Russia or Germany or Sweden want the job of World Cop, they are welcome to it. We'll leave the keys to the Police Cruiser at the doughnut shop.

LOL....and sooooooooooooooooo true.

Truer words were never spoken.
Cheers and a standing ovation, I nominate Jim Sachs for president.


:TU:

Well said Jim.

Edit: You edited your post while I was typing mine, Marian... After saying what he just said, do you think he'd want the job??? ;)

I respectfully decline the nomination :)

...that is why it must be you.
/Gladiator

:)

You do realize that being President would greatly slow down my work on the Aquarium.

Delegate Jim, Delegate. :) :)

OK, I'll delegate - You be President and I'll work on the Aquarium.

But you'd have minions Jim, minions... Think about it... You could work on the aquarium and they could do all that other stuff...

Ah, minions. I've always wanted minions. I hear they're great with truffle sauce.

This could be drawing to a close, (lets hope!), so I promise this is MY last comment on the subject.

A few quotes from this - "debate".
Very true!
Emotions, getting way out of control.
Definitely NOT true, - but understandable to a point.


It is difficult to see yourself as others see you, but believe me, if more people came across as Jim's comment does, (with a few amendments), America (USA), would not be the hated nation it is fast becoming.

Some of the great problems of this world, Politics, Religion, Patriotism, and most importantly, - greed, will never be overcome until people listen to each other, and see each other's point of view. ..... We have to do it. - We have to talk and listen!

We in the UK have a problem that has been going on for a lot longer, - Northern Ireland!!!

The bottom line is, - the two sides have to decide, if they want to return to self-government, - more than they want to hate each other!

At the end of the day, both sides have to compromise, it has to happen, - and will ......... EVENTUALLY.

I will now be :silent:

Wow, I ignore a thread just because I don't have the screensaver and I miss out on all this lovely political debate! :rolleyes:
Jim, only someone who absolutely doesn't want the job should be President. If you got the job, could you please send ALL the Senators and such to Mars?
As for the help we've been in changing Islamic society while bombing the crap out of Afganistan and Iraq, remember that until we were unable to capture Osama or Saddam or find WMDs, those were the ostensible reasons we were there. Then suddenly the reason became "liberating the Iraqi people." Just like it is now being touted that we went not because there were actual WMDs but because there was a "weapons program." I still maintain that the real reason is oil, though I'm sure many will disagree. It seems that Bush had his eye on Middle Eastern oil for a long time, and 9/11 became a handy excuse to invade that part of the world. Yeah, something had to be done. My thought is, why not actually show some restraint and catch the terrorist groups and their leaders and try them in world court instead of going the old "eye for an eye" route and killing thousands of innocents in the process? I also find it rather convenient that Saddam Hussein was "captured" at the beginning of an election year. Call me a cynic.
Oh, by the way, what ever happened to Manuel Noreiga?

This is a religious point of view. Please do not read if it will offend you. I would block it out if I knew how.

There is only one solution to Earth problems. Man can not solve the problems of this world, only a one government rule of the entire Earth will do it; a government with Jesus Christ sitting on the throne, abiding by the Ten Commandants and the strict enforcement of same.

I know this view will get me ridicule, care not I, it is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.