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Jim Sachs 02-21-2011 08:25 PM

Well, it's the "selectable" part that has me worried. If it's an animated part of the background, like the swaying corals and the featherduster, then it might be fairly easy. But if I have to open up the interface systems, then it becomes a major project.

But at least I know where the money will come from, thanks to Patrick. I plan to invest $1000 with him, and at 1000-to-1, my winnings will finish my house. :)

patscarr 02-22-2011 04:03 AM

Sure, sure, I'll take those bets, but just like at the racetrack, the odds fluctuate, and with Jim's latest comment, they're down to 100 to 1 now. :)

cjmaddy 02-22-2011 05:41 AM

This isn't the racetrack, you offered odds of 1000-to-1, and we accepted! :p

.... You're not going to chicken out now are you?

Wizwad 02-22-2011 05:59 AM



(Where's the "runs round like a chicken" smiley?)

Surferminn 02-22-2011 10:33 AM

Well, I believe that Cliff and I are in for the original odds as we declared our acceptance of the odds BEFORE Jim's latest comments and BEFORE the changing of the odds! :)

Jav400 02-22-2011 11:04 AM

Yeah, but no money changed hands yet, so Pat is still in the clear until that point.

patscarr 02-22-2011 12:20 PM

OK, Cliff, Minn, and Jim are in for 1000 to 1. Anybody who gets in now is in for 100 - 1, but we still need to define "improvement." Since I'm taking the bets, I say it is a starfish on the glass, half animated eel in the cave, some new creature or moving coral, etc... NOT some unseen or unnoticed code to fix some obscure bug.

nicksteel 02-22-2011 12:28 PM

After a year of people pleading for a new feature, someone doesn't want one?

And, adding a confined object to the background would be much more simple than adding an independent object and modifying the user interface.

I notice that CompUSA is opening a few stores. I've been ordering from their web site.

patscarr 02-22-2011 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by nicksteel (Post 130153)
After a year of people pleading for a new feature, someone doesn't want one?

:) Nothing would make me happier than to lose this fictitious bet. :)

Jav400 02-22-2011 01:30 PM

In general Eel's are rather a slow moving creature. There isn't anything about them particularly excitable, so the addition of one would fit well within the scope of MA.

The video below shows one with the breathing and mouth moving. If this type action were emulated utilizing the central cave in MA3 it would be absolutely awesome. :)

Now, if Jim wants to go to that extent or not is another story......................................

patscarr 02-22-2011 03:53 PM

"...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Most people would like the eel. The handful who don't will just have to deal with it. :)

Wizwad 02-22-2011 05:39 PM

Extra points if you can name the philosopher who came up with that quote. Points deducted if there is any mention of Star Trek. :)

Jim Sachs 02-22-2011 08:29 PM

In answer to the question of why it's so hard to make anything selectable, it's because the fish selection interface would have to be completely re-worked, with new code and graphics. Everything would have to be re-arranged to find a place for the eel. The "cast of thousands" would have to be mobilized to come up with all the translations for Moray Eel. It's a real can of eels.

Nice video, Michael - very informative.

Patrick - Fictitious?! I was counting on that money! :(

cjmaddy 02-23-2011 03:48 AM

If there is to be a Moray Eel, I vote that it should be the colour of Michael's.... After all, he has supported their inclusion for so long... ;)

I also think the brown colour would look better in the MA3 cave.... ..... :)

Jav400 02-23-2011 06:34 AM

Thank you Cliff, I have always thought so as well. I have waited 10 years to see if "Harvey" made it into Jim's work, ( Named after Elwood P. Dowd's pooka, cause sometimes you saw him and sometimes you didn't ;) ) it would be nice to see him there. :TU:

Jim Sachs 02-23-2011 10:03 AM

Michael - Is the video of the same type of eel as Harvey? At first I thought it was black, but in some of the frames it does seem to have a reddish tinge.

Jav400 02-23-2011 10:15 AM

Yes, same species, but not him. My avatar is one as well. That video was just one I found on you tube that showed I guess what you would call the "attitude" of the Zebra Moray's. They generally don't like bright light as they don't see well, but have a well developed sense of smell. Alot of people will hand feed them, I did mine after awhile, but it can be slightly dangerous because they strike more at smell than sight. Zebra's don't have teeth per-se as do other Moray species, but it felt like I had slammed my thumb in a car door the one time he got it by mistake. Not to mention I had to stand there while he made up his mind to let go instead of slinging him across the room as instinct called for. ;)

The opening and closing of the mouth movement is as much for "smelling the water" as it is for breathing if I remember correctly.

As for an actual photo of Harvey, the only one I have was used on the creatures wishlist page down at the bottom. This was many many years ago when I had my aquarium running. As to the color of zebra's; generally they are a reddish/maroon brown color depending on how the light hits them during movement.

They are fairly common for home aquarium's as they are generally considered a "hardy" species. Finding one in a local aquarium store for some high res shots should be fairly simple.

Jim Sachs 02-25-2011 11:19 AM

Michael - I know that you are especially attached to the Zebra Moray eel, but do you have a second choice? The Zebra is not a "quick read" - the prominent stripes make it difficult to know exactly what you're looking at. The eyes and mouth tend to get lost in the camouflage.

Jav400 02-25-2011 12:39 PM

Not really.

I don't know what to tell you on that one Jim. Something like the snowflake eel or a Tessalata has a similar body shape, but the coloring looks as if it would be just as problematical. Other than those you have Standard Green Moray's which are just ugly IMHO compared to the rest of your work, and I don't recall ever seeing one of those in an aquarium other than somewhere like Shed or some such professional aquarium.

After those then you get into other more difficult shapes like the Blue Ribbon eel which has large mouth and nose appendages that I figured were going to be another shape programming problem with flow dynamics to get them to look/move properly. So actually I figured I lucked out with the one I had and liked.

I thought it would be the easiest one to get a high res shot of in a local shop, and to make the body shape of as well, if you were going to include one at all.........

Overall the Zebra Moray is one of the most common seen Eels in a home aquarium, probably because of the lack of teeth thing, to keep it from eating all the other inhabitants, and it's general disposition of live and let live as long as it's not starving or anything.

patscarr 02-25-2011 02:00 PM

That Tessalata Eel looks interesting, but I like Harvey better.

Jim Sachs 02-25-2011 02:20 PM

Maybe I can find an example with less-pronounced markings, so that the face is more recognizable. I'm just afraid that with it hiding in the cave, people will just see a bunch of dots and stripes and not know what it's supposed to be.

ESHIREY 02-25-2011 10:33 PM

The standard green is what's in Divevisions, I like all of the ones pictured. When I had my Salt Water tank years ago we had a Blue Ribbon eel. He was sooooooooooooo cool. Everyone that came over really liked him. So I vote for him. But like I said, I like them all.

ESHIREY 02-25-2011 10:34 PM

Also, you can put me down for a buck too. ;)

Ralph 02-25-2011 11:18 PM

As much as I would like to see additions to MA3.. This would be a good time to start the creature pack series. Adding another fish will not on its own sell a single copy. IMHO

Jim Sachs 02-26-2011 12:08 AM

Ralph - the difference is days compared to years. The fish packs would mean completely re-doing all the existing fish with new models, and creating all-new behavior algorithms. All that before I could even start on the fish packs. On the other hand, it snowed here last night, so I'm stuck inside working on the computer for a couple of days. If I don't have to get into the menu system, I might be able to get a Moray eel living in the cave in the next couple of days. Having something in the cave would give the program a sense of completeness.

cjmaddy 02-26-2011 06:34 AM

If we could inject a little more life into the Starfish, it would be even more complete.... ;)

Nicki 02-26-2011 10:26 AM

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow :D.

Ralph 02-26-2011 10:57 AM

Then I echo Cliff and Nicki's comments. :D

ESHIREY 02-26-2011 12:07 PM

Me too.

Jim Sachs 02-26-2011 12:31 PM

The Zebra Moray might work after all. Some of them have fewer markings on the face, which makes them a little easier to recognize as an eel. This one, for example:

ESHIREY 02-26-2011 01:07 PM

There you go. Good luck with it buddy.

Jav400 02-26-2011 01:22 PM

I have only one comment then:

A Snoopy Dance !!!

Ralph 02-26-2011 01:58 PM

An interesting U-TUBE video on that page Jim... reminds me of freshwater crabbing in Cuba. Not sure what those guys / girls are up to in the mud

patscarr 03-01-2011 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 130476)
...I might be able to get a Moray eel living in the cave in the next couple of days...

Wow! :eek::drool::TU:

Jim Sachs 03-01-2011 10:42 AM

The model and texture are done, now I just have to graft it into the program, and figure out the animation.

Jav400 03-01-2011 10:58 AM

I feel a Snoopy dance coming on!!! :)

Is he supposed to just kind of peak out of the cave or will he come out a few inches like in the video I posted.

ESHIREY 03-01-2011 11:13 AM

I feel the dance coming too. And I haven't been able too for the last 16 years. This is great news, I can't wait.

Jim Sachs 03-01-2011 11:26 AM

My plan is for him to lurk near the back of the cave until a fish swims by, then start to come out as if he were going after the fish. This is the opposite behavior from the clams and Feather Duster, which retreat when a fish comes near. The mouth and gills will also work.

Surferminn 03-01-2011 11:40 AM

Wow, that was fast, and color too? A maroon color eel with white stripes? Are you planning to have him/her come completely out of the cave and round about the aquarium or just in and out of the cave? I was thinking it would be nice to have the eel come out and go right up to the window and then turn around and back in the cave. Lol ... how many folks do you think will position their camera right at the cave and sit and wait for it to make it's appearance? edit, oops, too slow, you already answered the question.

Jim Sachs 03-01-2011 11:43 AM

No, the eel will stay in the cave, just poking out a little way. Only the front 1/3 of it exists. Remember, it's part of the background, not a "choosable" fish.

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