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-   Marine Aquarium 3 for Windows (https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=46)
-   -   Windows 7 & MA3? (https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5145)

garybebee 02-26-2010 02:36 PM

single clicked and double clicked it to no avail. i am leaning towards purchasing the cd version and hoping that is a different result. what do you think of that idea? i have been around the horn two or three times on all these suggestions(which i definitely appreciate), but i don't seem to be making any progress. i would rather buy the cd than keep bugging you all!

garybebee 02-26-2010 02:39 PM

hi jim, sorry to keep bugging you. do you think i would have better luck by purchasing the cd? at this point i have spent too much of you and the other members time. it would be worth it to me if it worked. thanks again, gary

Jav400 02-26-2010 02:48 PM

As far as time, don't worry thats what we are here for.

As for the cd, I doubt so, it is the same thing, or a slightly earlier version in the process. The live download at serenescreen is always the latest version available.

garybebee 02-26-2010 02:49 PM

i downloaded a sound effect file of bubbles and loaded into ma7 as a music file with a .aif extension and it plays! the bubble sound didn't come as a loop but i made it one so it has some minute choppiness to it. haha. i still think i will buy the cd version unless you guys think it would be a waste of money.

garybebee 02-26-2010 02:52 PM

i figured maybe the cd would be a better source for the specific sound extension jim used.

Dale 02-26-2010 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garybebee (Post 119035)
single clicked and double clicked it to no avail. i am leaning towards purchasing the cd version and hoping that is a different result. what do you think of that idea? i have been around the horn two or three times on all these suggestions(which i definitely appreciate), but i don't seem to be making any progress. i would rather buy the cd than keep bugging you all!

I am so confident that the CD version will not fix your problem, that if you buy the CD version and it does fix the problem, I'll reimburse your cost.

On the other hand - perhaps you need to take your computer to some fixit place (or call a Geek or whatever), and offer to pay their fee only if they can make MA3 play the bubbles and CannonGuitar music.

I don't mind taking a lot of time to try to help - but I'm totally convinced that it's "something" that has been installed on your computer, and I have no idea how to figure out "what".

Yodelking 02-26-2010 04:23 PM

I don't think the CD-version will help either. It's the same program.
And regarding letting Dale and others spend "too much time helping you", don't worry! :)
If the case is finally solved, the next person with the same problem will be easier to help.

Did you try to re-install the latest DirectX? (Don't remember if that was in the thread already).

Jim Sachs 02-26-2010 07:32 PM

The CD version is exactly the same as the download version. Once installed, the program lives on your computer -- it does not access the CD for sound or anything else.

Nicki 02-27-2010 09:08 AM

Would this help at all? Start the aquarium in windowed mode with music off and only canonguitar in the playlist. Also bring up task manager -> processes. Bring up MA3 menu and enable music then see if a process is launched. This would be the process that is trying to open the .sgt file if it has been hijacked by another program. Yes/no/maybe?

Jim Sachs 02-27-2010 10:53 AM

There's no separate process. It's all MA3, which does not know or care what other programs might be using the .sgt extension. It just gets the bytes and feeds them to the sound card through the DirectX MIDI drivers.

Dale - Your bet regarding reimbursment of the cost of the CD is a risky one. Something totaly unrelated might fix the problem. Maybe shortly after installation, his cat might walk across the keyboard and press the M or B key, and the sound might magically start working. :)

But seriously, I think the CD asks if you want to reinstall DirectX. If that has not been done, some missing drivers might be put back into place, in which case the CD might be seen as "fixing" the problem.

cjmaddy 02-27-2010 11:39 AM

How many times over the years have I recommended, that if there is an unexplained problem, then try re-installing DirectX, then reboot your computer.

.... And how many times have I been ridiculed?

Dale 02-27-2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 119064)
Dale - Your bet regarding reimbursment of the cost of the CD is a risky one. Something totaly unrelated might fix the problem. Maybe shortly after installation, his cat might walk across the keyboard and press the M or B key, and the sound might magically start working. :)

But seriously, I think the CD asks if you want to reinstall DirectX. If that has not been done, some missing drivers might be put back into place, in which case the CD might be seen as "fixing" the problem.

Yes, I understand the risks - but I thing garybebee is an honorable and honest person. And besides, the cost of the CD is far less than what I would charge a client for the time I've (willingly) put into this already.

;)

Nicki 02-27-2010 12:54 PM

Okay, not that then. When I get vexing little problems like this, I sometimes will set up a new user account on my computer and then run the problem program immediately before making any changes. This has fixed video driver problems as well as Windows Live glitches when even a complete uninstall has not helped.

Certainly though, reinstalling DirectX doesn't take much time and could just be it.

Dale 02-27-2010 01:29 PM

Latest redistributable download.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...7-5ab8109cb4f5

Download the executable, and run it - which will unpack a bunch of files to somewhere that you specify. Then run DXSETUP.exe from there.

feldon34 02-27-2010 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmaddy (Post 119065)
And how many times have I been ridiculed?

Not that we ever needed a reason. ;)

Dale 02-27-2010 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmaddy (Post 119065)
How many times over the years have I recommended, that if there is an unexplained problem, then try re-installing DirectX, then reboot your computer.

Search says the answer is 14.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmaddy (Post 119065)
.... And how many times have I been ridiculed?

I couldn't figure out how to search for that - nor how to search for how many times it has actually worked. And how many times it did not work.

But you're absolutely right that it's worth a try.

Presumably, garybebee will try it and let us know if it's successful in this case.

Ralph 02-27-2010 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 119071)
Search says the answer is 14.

That seems unreasonably low :) If true we must all endeavor to do much better in the future. :):)

Terry Kennedy 02-27-2010 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinz Clortho (Post 119023)
I agree with Dale. Probably some other piece of software has altered the file association setting for .sgt files. Uninstalling the software doesn't necessarily reset those settings, and I've not been able to find a fix online. There is a way to do it through the folder options in Windows explorer, but I have no idea how.

Just as another data point - I too get no bubble sounds or music in MA3. I have checked a half dozen different XP (x32) and Windows 7 (x64) machines and none of them have a file type association set for .sgt files.

I can play .mp3 and other known file types by selecting them in the MA3 config window.

The only Microsoft reference I can find for sgt files states that they are an obsolete component of DirectMusic Producer for DirectX version 8.

Jim Sachs 02-27-2010 08:03 PM

I think there may still be a misunderstanding here. The fact that the file extension is .sgt has nothing to do with anything. It could just as easily have been .xyz or .raw. It's just a bunch of bytes that get loaded into a memory buffer and fed to the sound card via the DirectX MIDI drivers.

If the following conditions are met, then the sound should play:

Sound card and speakers are working, and volume is up.
DirectX MIDI drivers are in proper working order.
The MA3 window is the focus window.
Sound has not been turned off either in the MA3 Settings or by pressing the M (for music) or B (for bubble sound) keys.
Volume in MA3 Settings is set to something audible.

Terry Kennedy 02-27-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 119076)
I think there may still be a misunderstanding here. The fact that the file extension is .sgt has nothing to do with anything. It could just as easily have been .xyz or .raw. It's just a bunch of bytes that get loaded into a memory buffer and fed to the sound card via the DirectX MIDI drivers.

Ok. I was basing my comment on several prior replies that said to try playing the file directly, and that some other application registering the .sgt extension could cause a conflict.

I tried (unsuccessfully) to find an application that could play .sgt files to verify that the file actually worked. Since MA3 doesn't expose an error log or traceback when trying to play the file, we can't use MA3 to troubleshoot this.

I did download the Feb 2010 DirectX update from Microsoft, as linked in a previous post. That didn't change anything for me.

Can you elaborate on how the bubble sounds are stored or generated? The inability to play the sample music isn't an issue for me, but I would like my bubble sounds. :sad:

Vinz Clortho 02-27-2010 08:40 PM

How about trying to run MA3 in a sandbox? There are free ones that work with Windows. Not tried them myself but it's just a thought.

Jim Sachs 02-27-2010 08:50 PM

The bubble sound is a simple looping wave (.wav) file.

Dale 02-27-2010 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Kennedy (Post 119074)
Just as another data point - I too get no bubble sounds or music in MA3. I have checked a half dozen different XP (x32) and Windows 7 (x64) machines and none of them have a file type association set for .sgt files.

I can play .mp3 and other known file types by selecting them in the MA3 config window.

I would not expect an application association with file type .sgt - and don't see one on any of my systems.

However - I'm glad (I think) to see one more example of MA3 that doesn't play the default music and bubble sounds. That increases the chance of diagnosis.

Terry, do you not get the sounds on XP systems, or is the silence only on Windows 7 (X64)?

I suppose there is some chance that this might be "edition" specific. I'm hearing MA3 sounds OK on W7 Ultimate (X86 and X64) and W7 Home Premium (X64). Perhaps Terry and garybebee could state what edition of W7 they are using, just to complete the record?

Terry Kennedy 02-27-2010 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 119082)
Terry, do you not get the sounds on XP systems, or is the silence only on Windows 7 (X64)?

Works fine here on 32-bit XP.

Quote:

I suppose there is some chance that this might be "edition" specific. I'm hearing MA3 sounds OK on W7 Ultimate (X86 and X64) and W7 Home Premium (X64). Perhaps Terry and garybebee could state what edition of W7 they are using, just to complete the record?
I'm using Ultimate x64. The 2 W7 systems I have both have Asus Xonar audio cards (2 different models). I have not encountered any other cases where audio doesn't play on these systems.

Windows is up-to-date w/ updates, as is DirectX. I have no error'd devices in Device Manager.

flip 02-27-2010 11:52 PM

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...highlight=flip

Seeing I started this monster I finally got my own selected music going its here some where.
It sounds complected but it is actually easy once you understand it all.

Its a definite copy and print out to make it easy.

As far as any sound is concerned I had to install a special program after I had a new sound card/chip installed.

I will try to locate that site and either edit it in or make a new reply.

Sorry no luck

Keith:):)

Dale 02-28-2010 10:22 AM

flip, your original problem is not the same as garybebee and Terry are reporting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip (Post 119085)
As far as any sound is concerned I had to install a special program after I had a new sound card/chip installed.

Keith:):)

That information might perhaps be useful, if you can locate it.

Dale 03-02-2010 03:19 PM

Terry and gary bebee - just to complete the "picture" - there is one question that I don't think has been posed yet.

With MA3 running, what happens when you:

Press the M key (this is supposed to toggle the music).
Press the B key (this is supposed to toggle the bubble sound).

Probably nothing, but I'm grasping at straws.

Terry Kennedy 03-02-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 119184)
With MA3 running, what happens when you:

Press the M key (this is supposed to toggle the music).
Press the B key (this is supposed to toggle the bubble sound).

No change to sound from either (with stock music). Both successfully check / uncheck the relevant boxes in the "Program Settings" menu when pressed.

If I select an MP3 from the "Music Playlist" menu, M turns it on and off.

Nicki 03-02-2010 06:01 PM

It would be no problem at all for me to record canonguitar as an mp3 and post it to my skydrive (with Jim's permission of course), and I could record a 10 minute span of bubble sound too (which would be better than a short loop with lots of breaks, and would need permission as well). You could ony play one or the other, but for now at least it would be a workaround.

cjmaddy 03-02-2010 07:07 PM

There's one here.... ;) .... https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...mp3#post112340

Right click on the link, then 'Save Target As...'. :)

Nicki 03-02-2010 07:21 PM

Thanks Cliff. You must have a great memory to know where all these previous posts are, not just here but on DA as well.

cjmaddy 03-02-2010 07:48 PM

I sometimes have to make extensive use of the search options... :)

.....and a good memory does help! ;)

Dale 03-02-2010 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Kennedy (Post 119188)
No change to sound from either (with stock music). Both successfully check / uncheck the relevant boxes in the "Program Settings" menu when pressed.

If I select an MP3 from the "Music Playlist" menu, M turns it on and off.

Not a big surprise. OK, here's another "straw"

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

That's DirectX 8.1: DirectMusic Producer

You'll see from the download page that it's from 2001. It "should not" mess up anything currently on your computer, because it's earlier stuff. It did not mess up anything on my computer (as far as I can tell) when I installed it.

YMMV, of course.

Jim Sachs 03-02-2010 11:39 PM

Forgive me if I missed some posts, but please refresh my memory. Do other MIDI pieces play (by simply clicking on them)? Do .WAV files play? Are there MIDI drivers listed in the Music section of DXDIAG (Microsoft MIDI Mapper, for example)?

Terry Kennedy 03-03-2010 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 119203)
Forgive me if I missed some posts, but please refresh my memory. Do other MIDI pieces play (by simply clicking on them)? Do .WAV files play? Are there MIDI drivers listed in the Music section of DXDIAG (Microsoft MIDI Mapper, for example)?

MIDI files play fine (in Windows Media Player). No sound if selected inside MA3. WAV and MP3 files play fine when selected inside MA3.

There is no "Music" section in my DxDIAG. Under DirectShow Filters I have:
Code:

MIDI Parser,0x00400000,1,1,quartz.dll,6.06.7600.16490
I also have:
Code:

Midi Renderers:
Default MidiOut Device,0x00800000,1,0,quartz.dll,6.06.7600.16490
Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth,0x00200000,1,0,quartz.dll,6.06.7600.16490
MPU-401,0x00200000,1,0,quartz.dll,6.06.7600.16490

The complete DxDiag output is here if it is useful.

Remember, I have no bubble sound either, so this is more likely a DirectX thing rather than a MIDI one.

Terry Kennedy 03-03-2010 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 119201)
Not a big surprise. OK, here's another "straw"

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

No change.

Dale 03-03-2010 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sachs (Post 119203)
Forgive me if I missed some posts, but please refresh my memory. Do other MIDI pieces play (by simply clicking on them)? Do .WAV files play? Are there MIDI drivers listed in the Music section of DXDIAG (Microsoft MIDI Mapper, for example)?

There is no Music section in DXDIAG on my PCs - to be accurate, I checked two of my W7 machines, and will check some others later. One of the machines I checked has a single "sound" section in DXDIAG, and the other has two, but in both cases there is not much in the section.

As I reported, all of my several W7 systems work fine with MA3 CanonGuitar.sgt and bubble sound. None of them have add-on sound cards. They all rely on the on-board audio.

HOWEVER

Note that Terry has an added high-end sound card (Asus Xonar), and garybebee may also have an add-on sound card. The report shows (in part)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garybebee
Description: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_103C2A86&REV_1002
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5910 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Jim, I think I've suggested every diagnostic possible, and every credible "standard" corrective measure.

I'm confident that Terry has the latest drivers, and perhaps garybebee (confirmation invited).

It appears to me that MA3's included sounds do not work with (some) sound cards or some chips or drivers. And if that diagnosis is correct, it probably says that folks who want excellent audio can't hear bubbles. This may be only a Windows 7 artifact (or may not), but that does not minimize the problem.

Although only a few people are affected, that seems to be either a very significant bug, or a system limitation that needs to be documented.

Jim Sachs 03-03-2010 10:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
So your DXDIAG doesn't look like this?

Dale 03-03-2010 10:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 8566

The other PC within reach has only one Sound section in DXDIAG.

Jim Sachs 03-03-2010 11:02 AM

Hmm, I see that mine is DXDIAG 5, and yours is 6. I wonder why they chose to cripple it.

Anyway, I'm out of ideas. It looks like the only way to diagnose this would be for it to happen on my machine during a debug session. That would mean a new computer and W7, neither of which will be happening anytime soon.


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