Should MA3 have default music?
 

Should MA3 have default music? -

Default music, or...

Default bubbles. (Sound)

(Your own music would still be an option in place of either)

The way I would see it... default bubbles are a natural and expected part of an aquarium. In the setup part of the program.. which everyone will have to enter anyway.. the option for music and all it's parameters can be selected.

While developing the music feature, I have become so accustomed to hearing it start when the Aquarium does, that it seems jarringly absent when it's not there. Bear in mind that I have the volume very low, and excellent MIDI sounds on this computer. When I listen to it on my laptop, the sound is obnoxious. Therefore, if I decide to continue with music capability for MA3, I'll need to include custom samples in the program so that I can maintain control over what people are actually hearing.

Default bubbles, but I really like the ability to change it to the music I want to hear while relaxing and enjoying MA.

Is no one paying attention? You will have the ability to make your own playlists.

Isn't YK just saying that he likes that ability? ;) - As indeed I do!

Fish don't make music... they make bubbles (well, mine does).

Do I want to make playlists, rather than have Winamp open and just click on which track I want next? I think probably not. That's not an anti-default music vote, perhaps if the music were particularly aquatic and different I could have it on when I wanted - but having an independant-of-the-rest-of-the-system volume control would be good, so can have it low if I want it and not have everything else low too...
John

I believe a whole lot of people vote on this poll and think they voted on whether or not they will have music or bubbles themselves which isn't the question. It's about what will be on the first time MA3 starts up after installation.

TT - I believe you are right, though Cliff attempted to make it clear.

John - The interface for building a playlist is pretty simple: just find a sound file somewhere on your machine, click on it, and it plays. Probably not that much different from WinAmp (though I've never actually seen it). The default music is Pachelbel's Canon. I had originally planned to use Saint-Saens' Aquarium, but there were a few problems (too short, for one thing). There is an independant volume control. I like it barely-audible.

Hey everybody! Hope you all are doing fine; haven't posted for a while, but have to respond to this thread (and to Tiny's post, just to show how I voted).

I have been following the making of MA3 and am waiting in anticipation for Jim's beta. It can't appear any too soon for me.

I voted for bubbles as default. I know that Jim is working on having music for the aquarium and I can only speak for myself, but I am personally against ANY music in the aquarium. This is an aquarium; I enjoy the aquarium for itself, not by it being able to play any music. I also would hate to see it ruined by having ANY default music (forgive me, Jim, whether it be classical or otherwise). The sound of bubbles is acceptable to me, but having music playing at the start is unacceptable. Please, Jim, have the MA3 default to no sound or at the most to bubbles.

I understand of course, that there will be an option to disable the sound.

I'm a purist when I enjoy aquariums. Bubbles are ok; music is not.

For the record, I turn off the bubbles on all aquariums. Bubbles are more or less natural in a home aquarium, music is not.

It was clear to me when I voted for bubbles.

Whatever the possible misinterpretation, it wouldn't affect the meaning of the result so far. ie, The voters prefer bubbles!

Yeah, but don't forget it is Jim's work and he gets the final say. After all his sweat I think he has earned it.

Um, yes it does.

Whether or not you and I can be bothered to turn off the music if and when we want to is a non-issue. The reason Jim wants it on as default is for the people who haven't even figured out you can switch between fish in MA2.

The fact that they have missed it does in my opinion prove the fact that a new approach to new users has to be taken (ie a really pretty and colorful splash screen the first time telling the user about the features), but it still changes the meaning of the voting result. Users voting here that the wouldn't use the midi track themselves are missing the point as I figure anyone who has taken the trouble to come here in the first place is interested/competent enough to manage to find the settings screen.

Jim,
What if this splash screen will come up every single time the program starts until they finally press the space bar (which of course would be the primary message of the splash screen) and thus discover the settings at least once?

Michael, - I'm only pointing out that Jim's and Tiny's beliefs would not change the result. I'm well aware that this is only a debating opportunity, not a democracy. :)

Tiny, - No it doesn't. - This poll is simply, Should MA3 have default music? - nothing more, nothing less.

If you wish it to mean something different, then I'm sure you are free to start your own poll.

Can we have both bubbles and music?

Amazing how soothing music brings Cliff and Calle to blows...

It is amazing how it always happens. - I make a suggestion, or upload a post or a picture, that appears to meet with a degree of universal success. But I know and said only yesterday, - This won't last, it will only be a matter of time before someone feels compelled to shoot it all down. - It's happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again. - Ah well, such is life! :)

But even I didn't expect 26:1 ...... It must have touched a nerve somewhere.

Morgan, I promise I will be soothing on this thread for the remainder of its run. - Post some BPMS pics, and change the subject. ;) This subject has run its course!

26 to 1 - so it's about even then. Math never was my thing :)

As a statistical sample, the poll had be be extremely skewed. By thier very presence in the Forum, everyone has proven to be computer-savvy enough to find their way here. It's kind of like asking a group of geniuses if idiots should be allowed to vote. Also, I'm convinced that not one of you has heard the music in its intended fidelity.

Hi Jim,
I'm all for the music. Might not use it much, but it's nice to know I have the option to listen to it if I want to.

Just regarding splash screens, I know that some programs have a default "Hints & Tips" screen that you can check a box on to make it stop. That might be useful here for the purposes of informing new users. :)

Jim I think the music is ~ok. In all honesty I doubt that you would include the file size that it would take to get most of the people here to agree that it was ok with them. It sounds "normal" on my machines and I would guess that it is fairly near what you are hearing on yours.

Personally if I am going to listen to something like your default choice I want to feel like I am standing there and can hear the sound of fingers sliding on strings, and can pick out the positions of the instruments and so forth and feel a real presence of the wind instruments and so on. I doubt you are going to be able to do that and get anywhere near the file size you want, or find much to do it with other than a studio recording to start with, which to me defeats the purpose. Anything else to me is a moot point.

I think you just need to get it to where you are satisfied with the compromise between sound and file size to your taste and let the rest of us do as we will. :)


As for the rest, I agree that something needs to be done at the beginning to allow the "masses" to see the settings and look at the options since most don't have any idea of the true options available. Think "lemmings" and led them to where you want them to go. ;) :)

Play BOTH
 

I was wondering why not have both, bubble sound and music?
My machine does not even have a great sound card, and can play 2
different sounds at the same time. ie, wav, mp3, midi, etc.
(it's Realtek HD, IBM)

... In my best soothing voice! ;) .....

sccannon, - You are more than welcome to listen to the music any time you want. The choice will be yours. - But do you want just the one tune to be the default sound, in place of the current default bubble sound? :)

You will always have the option to listen to any other tune you care to place into a playlist. (In addition to the one Jim is working on).

There, was that soothing enough? :)

The bubble sound and music have separate check-boxes. You will be able to check either, both, or none.

Whether the default position should be "Both" is another discussion (but not for this group :) )

And just to drive home what Cliff just said - What we are talking about here is the DEFAULT position of the checkboxes, not the fact that music capabilities will be available (they will.) The only question is what the user hears the VERY FIRST time he starts up MA3, before he has pointed the program to any of his own music or even looked at the user interface. If the user doesn't like my choice, he can simply press the "M" key and it's gone (and won't ever come back unless the "M" key is pressed again or the checkbox is marked in the user interface).

I know I didn't say anything about the music so I think now I will. I liked it. It sounds really good on my setup. I know some of you don't like the strings but being a musician I think it was done very well. I just thought I would let you know Jim. :TU:

Exactly! I pay attention! ;)

Sorry, Jim, - wrong again I'm afraid. :sad: - I have at least two versions in my record collection, (not counting LPs), which I got out when you first posted it. - I wanted to make sure of my recollection of what it could sound like! :) .... Or will you allow me to make that a .... :p ;)

ps, .... And don't even think of questioning the fidelity of my record playback equipment! :)

No, what I meant is that I'm fairly certain that none of you has heard THIS instance properly (when you start MA3). Each machine has it's own built-in MIDI sounds, and if the strings don't sound realistic, then you are not hearing what I'm hearing. No one is more critical of synthesized music then I am, and I could listen to this all day (in fact, I do!).

I agree. I do however feel that many voted no based on the fact that they themselves wouldn't like music instead of considering if having music would be better for computer illiterates. Since you made the poll I can't say if it was intended to answer that or not, but if people only vote based on how they would like their copy to behave the voting results doesn't help Jim.

Note that I neither believe it should have music on for the noobs nor for myself - just that the results don't help Jim.

Actually, I have to side a bit with Henemly here. IF one can only have one or the other then I think the bubble sound will be best, otherwise - if you can't get the MIDI sounding superb - the reaction of the 'common' user will be, "Yuck - love the screensaver, but that music is just horrid, and why isn't there any sound of bubbles?!" BUT if you can have both then it should start up with both bubbles and MIDI.

I don't know why, but hearing a musical background with no bubbles bubbling just makes me feel there's something missing from the program, even though I *know* there isn't. Or it makes me feel as if my third ear has gone deaf or something.

I would repeat my point when I took the survey..

Those that install the screen saver and do not bother looking at the setup parameters.. get a default aquarium screen saver.. a default number of fish and default bubbles.

Those that bother looking into the parameters can be pleasantly surprised by finding that there are more fish to select from.. possible variations in behavior.. light play.. AND the ability to play music.

Perhaps... Jim could code a fish to drag a sign.. much like an airplane with an advertising banner.. to explain that there are options... IF.. a number of instances of the screen saver starting in an absolute default position has occurred.

Jim, A little reminiscence.....

When Nick was a young child, there was a TV program called Magic Roundabout, containing a character call Brian, (a snail!). - He was the brains of the outfit. He would make profound statements on occasions. - A memorable one he once made, (the narrator was a Fulham fan), was in reference to one of the other characters going to see Fulham play football. - Brian's instant retort was, Watching Fulham play football? - That's a contradiction in terms! .... I have remembered that, and use it to this day....

Realistic string sounds, and synthesized, "music"? :erm: in the same sentence? .... That, is a contradiction in terms! :)

Tiny, - well, they obviously haven't! - (Helped Jim, that is!). So the whole exercise was a waste of time! :)

Cliff - Realistic synthesized instruments do exist - not that I can afford the bytes in my program. I have a friend who composes for movies and TV. He used to have the London Symphony Orchestra record the final versions, but now everything can be done in his computer room. No one can tell the difference. My wife and I were astounded at how good it sounded.

They can indeed make some astonishing simulations these days. But I've yet to hear one that doesn't sound like any other typical modern multi-track monstrosity, ie, what I hear and call, multi-channel mono! - Instead of genuine real stereophonic sound. - I think you will find that there are many like me, who would recognise the difference immediately.

Yes, and I'm one of them. A year ago I would have said that I'd be the last man standing on the acoustic side of the line, but (just like with digital photography), I have been won-over.

Jim, I don't believe it's acoustic vs digital necessarily. - That RPO disc is a DDD from 1994. Most of that series are quite good! One of only a few series of recording, IMO, worth listening to that have been made post late 1950s early 1960s. Most of that set owe their quality to having been recorded in a suitable venue, as opposed to in a studio where the mixing desk is the only hope of producing a life-like so called stereo presentation. - The comparison to digital vs film photography, is none existent in my opinion. The nearest would be making a CD of an analog recording, which some think is still not possible. - But I've got a cupboard full that won me over some years ago! - The difference, being the original recording venues and the techniques used.

I am prepared to be won-over, but I seriously don't think it will ever happen. Point me in the direction of a recording, made entirely in a computer room, and I will give it a listen. But don't hold your breath, I'm very critical when it comes to recorded sound! :)

When I get some time, I'll find one for you, but right now I'm too busy looking for low-byte-count pro-digitized instruments for my own project :)

Okay. Now, we can't just point Cliff to one recording made entirely in a computer room. He'll know what to expect. We'll have to try and trick him. We'll have to find a couple recordings made entirely in a computer room and a couple recordings made the normal way. Then he has to listen to all of them and tell us which are which.