No.

You just have to look at what happens to this if you spell colour correctly....

[colour=yellow]You just have to look at what happens to this if you spell colour correctly[/colour]....

:)

What really grated my cheese was having my spelling in high school criticized by my English teacher because I didn't use American spelling. I knew what country I was in, apparantly she didn't.

Actually I'm fine with Jim using American spelling since he's an American writing software in America. I just like being a troublemaker. :D

Nicki - I agree (and me too!) :D When I was in Frankfurt for a school exchange, the German English teacher (she was German, the subject was English) refused to accept that 'smart' means anything other than 'intelligent'. Any attempts on my part to explain that in England 'smart' means 'well dressed' rather than 'bright' met with scathing contempt.

Of course, since then we've become homogonised through US TV shows to such a degree that these days I wonder if the kids realise that 'smart' can be used in other ways than to denote IQ or cunning.

And to get back to the subject at hand - nice job on the Colour interface, Jim! :TU: :TU:

(Cliff, I think the others were teasing you over the excessive use of capitals rather than missing letters - check the title bar of the original screen shot!) :)

I'm not blind. - :p - I was teasing about spelling! :).... Capitals? - some don't even know that those exist! :D

I like Rick's suggestions.

In Canada we speak the queens English as well.. my "picky" point was that Jim was not fast enough with the shift key when he typed COlors:D

Well, as an aging person myself, I know that you vintage people can sometimes overlook these things. I just wanted to make sure!

:p

[runs value="fast"/]

ROFL

I bet that smarts

Back on the subject of the coleur picker (um, that isn't any better) can I say making colours by choosing RGB values is hard and perhaps there needs to be some choice of starting point? Anyone want to say what RGB of 35,107,142 makes? (Steel Blue, anyone want to try Khaki without using Google?)
Also, how about some internationalisation? (That's internationalization for those in the U.S.)
John

You can.
Please see the mockup.
Use the sliders and you instantly see the resulting color.

Internationalisation for 1 character (the u in colour)?

The rgb sliders are the easiest way I can think of to choose a color. You are directly setting the very numbers that DirectX will be using. As Morgan says, you'll see the color in the rectangle change as you move the sliders. I've always found all those other interfaces for picking colors to be confusing. They obfiscate what is really happening.

As far as internationalization, it's the very reason why MA3 updates must be so few and far between. When I turn in a release candidate, an army of translatiors and programmers go to work making versions in German, French, Korean, Japanese, etc.

Yep, I think it works well, too (or will once it's completed and released).

I especially like that we'll be able to give the aquarium background realistic, natural colors like shades of red, orange, and yellow.

:)

I18N translation is usually only necessary for documentation, and for features that change the wording on settings panels.

Translation would not normally be required for things like bug fixes, and "look and feel" improvements. So, in those cases, I don't see why "few and far between" would apply.

Since I was able to play MP3 sounds successfully from within the MA3 "Music Playlist" box, even on the systems that were/are having the problem, why not change the bubbles to be in MP3 format? The software already knows how to play MP3's. For extra points, the CanonGuitar could also be changed, but I expect more people would benefit from the bubble change.

Why does Jim even bother posting anymore, if you are going to "correct" him on facts about his own product in every thread?

MP3s are hundreds of times bigger than MIDI files. I've always tried to keep the Marine Aquarium compact and efficient. It's a small download which treads lightly on bandwidth, and I plan to keep it that way.

Jim,

If you would like to provide an optional downloadable content as an mp3 or mp3s here on the forums, please let me know. We have 1,500GB of available monthly bandwidth and we use less than 10%.

True. But you did say "The bubble sound is a simple looping wave (.wav) file.". That's why I said that the bubbles were the primary issue.

Of course, it would be better if the underlying problem was addressed, but it doesn't sound like that's likely to happen.

On the contrary, I think it's very likely to happen. Some day, someone will be messing around with their drivers or tweaking their Windows settings, and the MIDI files will just start playing. The hard part is getting them to come back here to the Forum and report what they did.

MP3 is an extremely complex proprietary system, and I'm positive that switching to it would break far more systems than it would fix.

Please remember that my systems played every type of audio I could throw at them (MIDI included) from every app that produces audio (and I have some obscure ones) except the bubbles and CanonGuitar from MA3.

I still think there may be some difference between the bubble and CanonGuitar problems as the music chooser box can play a WAV file.

This could probably be pinned down by adding a "generate debug log" box to the program settings menu in the next build (after all, this is a beta). You could log whatever info you think would help you track the problem down (logging parameters sent to and return codes from the sound functions would seem to be a place to start). Similar debugging code could be added to help you track down any issues that other people have reported, as well.

Do you really think that Jim has nothing better to do than follow up every self-inflicted fault that users create on their own systems?

When I find a problem, I research it myself, (it is after all MY problem). Then when I find what has caused it, I report the results, and if the underlying reason was with MA, then Jim can take any action he considers necessary or possible. - If on the other hand the remedy is by making corrections to MY system, the need to report is solely so others can be aware of the effect such a situation can cause.

Nice attempt at being snarky. Dale can tell you I'm a lot better than you at it, but at least I'm trying to be a) polite and b) helpful here.

I had multiple systems that exhibit the problem. I performed every diagnostic test suggested here, no matter how unlikely it was to fix the problem or create new problems (install DirectX 8 components on Windows 7? Why not?). None of that helped.

After some additional exploring on my own, I found that running a component (media center) that is not even included in some versions of Windows 7 seems to correct the problem. Of course, that won't help the customers who have Windows versions that don't include it.

I have repeatedly expressed my willingness to try other troubleshooting steps, explained to Jim how he could run Windows 7 free for at least 30 days so he could track it down, and made several suggestions about a debug option in MA3 which would log "what goes out and what goes in" so that Jim could gather whatever data he wants on systems that have the problem.

Ok, I've made what will probably be my last effort to troubleshoot this and provide input to Jim.

I extracted the fishss22.wav file that is embedded in MA3. If I use that as a sound in the MA3 music player, I get the "official" bubble sound just fine (yes, even on the system that still isn't working), but with a pause every 8 seconds as the MA3 music player recycles. (If I play it with Windows Media Player and "Repeat" checked, it loops without pauses, so I assume this is a result of the way the MA3 music player works.

So, here we have the exact official file it is trying to use for bubbles, but the code that tries to play it as bubbles can't, while the music player in the same program can.

By the way, for anyone who wants to try it, it is here. And it is 654KB by the way, not exactly a lightweight (this makes it about 10% of the total size of the MA3 executable).

Thanks for the extract, Terry. Am I correctly understanding that the embedded bubbles are in .wav format? (i.e., not .sgt)

I see the same results (on systems that work anyway). The pause every ~~8 seconds is brief - perhaps 1/4 second.

One conclusion might be that if MA3 used the same code for playing the bubbles, that it does for playing music, then the bubbles "should" work for everybody.

Another conclusion might be that if MA3 used embedded CanonGuitar.wav instead of .sgt, it "should" work for everybody.

What's the difference in file size between .sgt and .wav?

Yes. I just clipped the file out of the executable (under Unix) with:


That's what I thought, too.

Quite a bit (which is what Jim was getting at earlier). CanonGuitar.sgt is 56KB, less than 1/10th the size of the 8 seconds of bubble .wav. That's why I said it would probably make sense to concentrate on the bubbles - the large .wav is already in the program.

Terry, - IMO, you are neither polite, nor helpful. - If that is what you are attempting, then you are not succeeding.

If you have established that installing Windows Media Centre corrects your lack-of-sound problem, then a logical step would be to determine what has been added/changed to/with your system/s by adding the WMC that then allows the MA3 .sgt files to be heard.

A quick search through recent posts produces a plethora of users who are all having no problems at all hearing both the bubbles and the CanonGuitar.sgt on a variety of W7 setups. The conclusion therefore must be that there is something different/wrong with your system/s.

Good luck with finding out what that 'something' is.

Can we get back to the topic, please!
I find "Simple additions" to be an interesting topic, and if there's additions to it, I'd like that to be related to the topic, so I don't spend time reading when people are writing crap!

As I have mentioned before, approximately 10% of the reports are that MA3 does not properly handle bubble sound and the default music in Windows 7.

https://www.feldoncentral.com/forums...?t=5145&page=7

In addition, another approximately 5% report that MA3 does not work properly on Windows 7, in various other ways.

Yes, I completely agree that if MA3 works correctly with some W7 systems, and does not work correctly with other W7 systems, then there must be something different with the systems.

[Added] Sorry yodelking - I was writing while you were. I agree that this topic has gone well off the subject, and perhaps should return to the title]

If I felt it would help, I would spend about an hour trimming out all the rudeness, snark, sarcasm, and personal attacks from all the aimless, unfocused threads that have been created and replied to in the past weeks.

But I feel my hands are tied, so it shall continue.

Curiosity has got the better of me, if I may be so bold to ask; why are your hands tied? :confused:

Doesn't having your hands tied make it hard to type?

:confused:

Either:

A) it wont matter because a week later it will be right back like it was

B) someone somewhere will get ticked when their post is removed

C) all of the above

:)

This could be a local custom in Copenhagen, the tying of hands. When in Rome do as the Romans do thing...

Meanwhile, back on Earth -

The Background Color interface is coming along pretty well. I'm currently hooking up all those little buttons. Now that I've got the color swatches under control, it's kind of nice to be doing the part that's just a lot of work, but nothing new needs to be invented. I just finished pouring some concrete at 10:30. Hope to get the main dialog box working before I have to go back and trowel the cement about 2 a.m. Got an appointment for a minor operation at 8:30 in the morning (eyelid cyst). I'll be working with one eye tomorrow.

You are troweling 15 odd hours after a pour... that stuff will be like concrete by that time:) Then up and ready for an eye appointment at 8:30... Much too long a day for me:D

This thread made me really doubt my testing of MA3 with Windows 7, so I have gone back and done another thorough test. Still no problems, everything is fine out of the box, apart from the fact that I updated DirectX.

Ralph - No, just 3 hours. Wasn't anywhere near ready 'til after 3 a.m.

On the eyelid surgery front, the doctor decided to wait a couple more weeks, using just hot compresses. (It's already been 4 weeks without improvement.)

Nicki - Thanks for checking again. Please refresh my memory - was this system a native W7 a computer, or could it have already had some older drivers on it?

Jim, it's a native W7 computer running Home Premium. My previous computer was kind enough to kick the bucket just as W7 came out. The new machine didn't come with media center.

OK, that's encouraging. At least it means that Microsoft did not intentionally abandon support for DirectX 8/9 sound drivers. It also eliminates the possibility that some W7 users were only hearing sound because of old legacy drivers that were still on their computers from previous operating systems.