[Gigazoid]

Hello, Jim

[JimSachs]

Hi, Guys. Big crowd tonight.

[feldon26]

Good evening Jim.

[feldon26]

Yes, the house is packed.

[feldon26]

Somehow I knew announcing it so late would be a problem. :(

[Gigazoid]

How goes the work?

[JimSachs]

Slow.

[Gigazoid]

Are updates to the sma going to happen at the same time on all platforms?

[JimSachs]

Giga - yes, most updates will happen accross the board.

[Gigazoid]

thats good news about the mac

[feldon26]

Gigazoid: the Mac team is pretty quick.

[feldon26]

I hope Michael (Jav400) is not having connection problems again.

[Gigazoid]

Can we expect an update soon?

[JimSachs]

Well, Prolific is working on an update of the user interface, and that should be out very soon.

[feldon26]

So how are things, Jim?

[JimSachs]

Had a big rainstorm here for several days. Lots of flooding downstairs.

[Gigazoid]

I live in Apple Valley, CA... Lots of rain here too

[JimSachs]

I'm looking out my window at Apple Valley right now.

[JimSachs]

Giga - since most of the trees have died up here, I have an unobstructed view of Apple Valley and Victorville.

[Gigazoid]

Where do you live?

[JimSachs]

Lake Arrowhead.

[patscarr]

hi all

[feldon26]

hiya, Pat

[JimSachs]

Hi, Patrick

[patscarr]

I live in South Korea

[JimSachs]

Been there.

[Gigazoid]

I was in Big Bear last month

[Gigazoid]

before the snow

[feldon26]

Jim: last time we talked, the tools from Prolific were giving you fits. Any roadblocks clearing in that regard?

[JimSachs]

I'll be spending a day with Will this coming week. Reichart wants me to try one more time to get with the program and switch to Will's codebase.

[feldon26]

Jim: Ah. Are the tools limiting?

[JimSachs]

Only in my ability to understand the new code. When I turned in my last version, it was 5 .cpp files. Now it's 39, and every line of code is different.

[JimSachs]

I was very close to going back to the year-old code and starting from there. Will would have to then translate everything to the new system.

[feldon26]

Jim: Why do you need to look at the code at all?

[feldon26]

Jim: This does not make any sense to me. You were talking about how great it was that Will, a long-trusted friend and expert programmer was going to redo the Aquarium with very efficient code that would be very modular so you can add everything you want.

[JimSachs]

I have to have total control over every aspect of the program.

[feldon26]

And now the last few months you have been trying to understand this code instead of doing the artistic aspect.

[JimSachs]

Some of both.

[feldon26]

With all due respect, it is counterproductive to try to understand this code which has been essentially designed to be over your head and the head of ANY artist.

[feldon26]

It is designed from a programming "no user serviceable parts inside" viewpoint.

[feldon26]

If the tools were not doing what you wanted, I'd understand and I'd hold Prolific's feet to the fire.

[JimSachs]

Remember my middle name is DoesNotWorkWellWithOthers.

[feldon26]

I have COMPLETE control over how the vBulletin forum software works.

[feldon26]

But I do not understand the code except for the code that did not do what I wanted.

[feldon26]

so I learned just that code and fixed it.

[feldon26]

Anyway, it is not my purpose here to dominate the conversation or be negative about things.

[feldon26]

I am praying that you have a successful meeting with Will next week.

[JimSachs]

That would be nice, but if not I will be going back to the old code-base.

[feldon26]

It just tells me that you do not trust Will. :(

[feldon26]

an unfortunate situation to have a programmer that you do not trust. :(

[JimSachs]

Morgan - It's the same thing as going away for the weekend, and having someone tear down your house and rebuild it their way. It might be better, but you won't know where anything is.

[JimSachs]

Also the reason I don't hire any contractors to work on my house.

[JimSachs]

Or my cars.

[feldon26]

Jim: I understand your work ethic.

[feldon26]

I think it is an insult to you that you do not have a team of people brought in by Prolific keeping your car, house, etc. in perfect order so that you can do what you do best.

[JimSachs]

Or go to doctors.

[feldon26]

Well, you have good reason to despise doctors.

[JamesNZ]

Hi Morgan and Jim and others!!

[JamesNZ]

where's my first msg gone?

[feldon26]

I dunno, but we see what you're saying.

[feldon26]

Greetings Huzzu, welcome to the chat.

[patscarr]

so when is MAT coming out?

[JimSachs]

I have virtually nothing to do with MAT. Saw it twice.

[feldon26]

pat: probably Wednesday but that is NOT a promise.

[JamesNZ]

pat: I'm more interested in Freshwater aquarium than MAT :p

[patscarr]

yeah, me too, james

[patscarr]

but MAT is next, so I cant wait to see it

[JamesNZ]

Jim: so how's ur progress on Freshwater one?

[Vish]

Hi All

[JimSachs]

Hi, Vish

[feldon26]

hi Vish, welcome to the chat.

[Vish]

Hi Jim. So what are we all talkin about... I know I am late....

[Gigazoid]

Freshwater progress

[JamesNZ]

Jim: so how's ur progress on Freshwater one? (I guess u didn't see my q :p)

[Vish]

Cool. Freshwater progress...sounds interesting...

[JimSachs]

There is forward progress on Freshwater, but slow.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: ic, so what's the current thing u r working on? the fish or the plant?

[patscarr]

Jim, you have been working on the freshwater saver for so long, whats the slowdown caused from?

[JimSachs]

Originally, my thought was to take the marine aquarium, change the background and fish, and release it.

[patscarr]

That's what I was expecting anyway.

[JimSachs]

But everything has changed in the 2.5 years since I did the marine aquarium. The whole way the program is layed out has to be different.

[JimSachs]

The plants must move, the background must be hi-res, etc.

[JimSachs]

The native res will be 1600x1200.

[feldon26]

pat: Jim has 2 choices. Use the new development tools that Prolific has spent the last year and a half on which SHOULD make developing the Aquarium very easy.

[feldon26]

pat: OR do it 100% himself.

[patscarr]

that sounds perfect, why not do that Jim?

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: well, then which one would Jim prefer?

[feldon26]

James: plan B

[patscarr]

oh

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: u mean by 100% himself?

[feldon26]

James: the saltwater aquarium up to 1.0 is 100% Jim's work. The artwork, the 3D, the behavior, the swimming, the physics, tne programming, the control panel, everything.

[feldon26]

these new tools were written so Jim could focus on the art

[feldon26]

anyway...

[JamesNZ]

Morgan; yep I know that, so in the Freshwater's case is the same eh? icic....

[patscarr]

morgan, i can tell you are a little upset these days

[patscarr]

dont take it out on Jim

[feldon26]

pats: well this is pretty infuriating to read.

[feldon26]

It is one thing if the tools are crap

[feldon26]

it is another if the tools are simply too complex

[feldon26]

I guess Prolific never kept it in mind to make the tools accessible to Jim for fine-tuning, etc.

[feldon26]

Jim: I remember your relief in June 2001 when you handed over the Aquarium coding to Will and said that you would focus on the art. I guess that did not go as planned. :(

[feldon26]

I think if I visit California, Jim will barricade his door. heh

[JimSachs]

My doors are too small for you, Morgan.

[patscarr]

he wont barricade the door, but you will not be permitted anywhere near the computer. :)

[feldon26]

pat: computer(s). bout 20 of em

[patscarr]

s

[patscarr]

lol

[Jav400]

Jim, Do the new tools you have been provided not do what you need them too? Or is it, that they are just complicated to learn and utilize?

[JimSachs]

Tools really have nothing to do with it, it's the vast changes in codebase.

[Jav400]

Jim: So basicially in layman's terms, you know English and everything is now in French

[JimSachs]

Jav - No, more like my code is 5 lines of English, and the new code is 5000 lines of English.

[feldon26]

Modular code is much bigger but it is SO much more powerful.

[feldon26]

A realistic physics engine instead of a hard-coded physics engine is huge. The present physics in the Aquarium are realistic, but difficult to extend for differently-shaped fish.

[feldon26]

Jim: did you make it clear to Will Ware and Prolific that the code needed to be kept 100% accessible for you?

[patscarr]

i am so mad about that new russian hack of MAT

[JimSachs]

Pat - doesn't really bother me.

[patscarr]

you must be a very laid back guy, Jim

[patscarr]

i usually am too, but this is just infuriating. its not even out yet!

[JamesNZ]

Jim: will the fish has individual behaviour in freshwater one?

[JimSachs]

James, Yes

[patscarr]

Jim, eventually or right away?

[JimSachs]

From the beginning. Plant movement and incredibly realistic bubbles, too.

[patscarr]

cool

[Jav400]

Jim: have you managed to complete any fish for the freshwater version?

[JimSachs]

A Cardinal Tetra.

[patscarr]

just ONE?!

[JimSachs]

That's not the focus. Fish are easy -- just take 1 day each.

[patscarr]

is the background near finished?

[JimSachs]

The background is about 1/3 finished.

[Jav400]

Jim: does it have many more points than the saltwater fish, or about the same?

[JimSachs]

The average fish has about the same number of polys as the MA fish.

[patscarr]

sorry i cant stay longer, we have to go to a friends wedding. i will have to read the log later. Jim, keep up the good work

[feldon26]

have a good day, Pat

[JimSachs]

Bye, Pat

[patscarr]

thanks, bye all, see you on the boards

[JamesNZ]

Jim: cool, and will the fish nibble the plant leaf and gravel?

[JamesNZ]

Jim: coz I found the fish spend most of thier time in the tank is nibble the leaf, or nibble the gravel then spit out, searching for foods

[JimSachs]

James - that won't happen right away, it needs a 3D background and months of programming.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: icic, then what kind of individual behavior whould be?

[JimSachs]

Darting or stately movement, chasing, etc.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: chasing is cool, since many fish has its own territory mind, it'll chase the other fish if bothered, will ur fish has territory mind? or just simply big fish chase small fish?

[JimSachs]

Probably territorial.

[JimSachs]

Based on the real behavior of each species, regardless of size.

[JamesNZ]

sounds really cool :)

[feldon26]

To my knowledge, the freshwater aquarium starts with a 2D background, only the plants move slightly.

[feldon26]

a 3D background for the freshwater would happen after the 3D background is done for the saltwater

[JimSachs]

Right.

[feldon26]

Houston is getting a downtown Aquarium next month

[feldon26]

gonna spend a lot of time there looking at fish behaviors. :)

[JimSachs]

Wish I had one within 50 miles.

[feldon26]

Jim: so you bring your miniDV camcorder with you and videotape the fish, right?

[JimSachs]

Morgan - Yes.

[Vish]

Jim: What other fishes have you decided upon to be included in the freshwater?

[Vish]

WHen I bought my freshwater(real), they said that there has to be mix of all sorts of fishes like, top feaders, bottom feaders and algae eaters and so on...

[Vish]

would you be thinking on those lines?

[JimSachs]

Vish - Angelfish, Red Swordtails, Black Mollies - the usual tropical fish.

[JimSachs]

Glassfish.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: r those the default fish u're gonna add in the freshwater?

[JamesNZ]

Jim: and how many in total will u include?

[JimSachs]

Number of species will be about 7 at launch.

[Jav400]

will any of those 7 be "group" fish that swim together mostly?

[JimSachs]

Yes

[JimSachs]

The total depends on the size. With smaller fish like neon tetras, 3 count as 1.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: so u mean if all 7 fish set to be neon, then there will be 21 neons swim together?

[JimSachs]

James - yes

[JamesNZ]

Jim: ic, 7 of them, can u list the other 3?

[JimSachs]

Haven't decided on a firm list, but a bottom-feeder catfish will probably be in there (if I can solve some shadow problems).

[JamesNZ]

Jim: ic, I think Glassfish would be hard to do, its behaviour I mean

[JimSachs]

Haven't seen any unusual behavior in Glassfish.

[JamesNZ]

I've been observing the Glass Catfish for long time in an aquarium many times and found it hardly swim around but just stay on a spot and keep vibrating its body to try to stay on the same spot

[JamesNZ]

and it like to stay under shadow, its body is wiggling like crazy, especially the tail part, as it try to stay on the same spot, not flot or sink, not forward or backwards, no matter the water current around it

[JamesNZ]

float up I mean

[JimSachs]

James - It's pretty easy to make the tail wiggle and keep it in the same place.

[feldon26]

The tricky bit is making it move properly :)

[JimSachs]

Yep

[feldon26]

having a tail wiggle while the fish is sitting still is cake :)

[JamesNZ]

Jim: I hope so, coz they stay on the same spot for long time, even I knock the tank or other fish swim close to them, they wont' budge, very stubborn

[JimSachs]

No problem - got it covered.

[JamesNZ]

cool :)

[JamesNZ]

and when the fish swim behine the glassfish we should still see thru it rigth? use alpha channel extensively?

[JamesNZ]

behind I mean.....man..I got so many typo

[JimSachs]

Yes, and bones.

[JimSachs]

They will have 2 meshes and textures, one inside the other.

[Gigazoid]

Jim: any plan to release a beta of the freshwater like you did with the saltwater

[JimSachs]

Yes, I plan to let the Forum members test it.

[Gigazoid]

Do you have to be a Forum member?

[Jav400]

Gig: there is no big deal to being a forum member, it just takes a few minutes and registration with a vailid email to complete your membership :)

[Jav400]

It would be hard to test and post your findings if you aren't registered and can post :)

[Gigazoid]

I'll join today

[JimSachs]

I'll probably let Morgan decide who's on the list.

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: can I be the beta tester of freshwater one? I only get to beta test the widescreen saltwater one b4 :p, I dont' even know where's the beta test forum :p

[feldon26]

We have a pretty good beta group right now. We'll look into things.

[feldon26]

James: when the freshwater beta comes, I'll look thru the forum and see who should be added.

[JamesNZ]

cool, well, what's the hardest fish for u to create among 7?

[JimSachs]

Bottom-feeder, because of the shadow. Millions of possible combinations.

[feldon26]

or you could just use a piece of code that understands how shadows work. :)

[JimSachs]

Morgan - Ever seen it done realistically in a real-time program? With all the man-years and millions of dollars poured into it?

[FearTec]

Shadows can be done in DX8 by using the D3DXMatrixShadow function

[JimSachs]

Non-additive, with soft edges?

[JamesNZ]

ic, so u'll need to fade out the shadow when the fish swim up right?

[JamesNZ]

I thought u overcome this problem on starfish?

[JamesNZ]

I think the hardest part is u have to let the shadow fade in when it landed on gravel again, sinc eu've already solve the fade out on starfish

[FearTec]

Hello, will bones and joints be added to all new fish meshes?

[FearTec]

Will the fresh water version allow the scene to move into he Z axis?

[JimSachs]

Nope, not possible for me.

[FearTec]

Moving into the Z axis then rotating the camera?

[feldon26]

Fear: there is no camera. the background is 2 dimensional.

[feldon26]

and even if the background were 3D, it is one-sided

[JimSachs]

I'll leave that to the younger generation with a lot of years ahead of them.

[FearTec]

I C, but the fish are 3D

[JimSachs]

Yes, the fish are 3D.

[FearTec]

But you could replace the 2d Texture with a 3d mesh

[feldon26]

even a GeForce 4 probably can't handle a 3D background of the level of detail Jim wants to do if the card had to handle all sides of it.

[feldon26]

Fear: Have you ever seen an Aquarium simulation on a computer or video game that looked realistic where you could move the camera?

[JimSachs]

The background will eventually also be 3D, but the camera will never get closer to them.

[JimSachs]

Got to maintain a 1:1 texture-to-screen pixel ration, or things will get blurry, like in 3D games.

[FearTec]

feldon26: DirectX has a few good progressive mesh options for reducing the mesh quality (far away meshes have reduced polygon counts until the camera is near the mesh)

[feldon26]

Fear: again, my point is, sure, there's DirectX 8 and DirectX 9 and all these promises, and games still look the same.

[FearTec]

But if you want detail, increase the mesh detail then if slowdown is a problem then reduce the polygons on meshes for far away meshes

[feldon26]

It is simply something that Jim and most of the fans do not want/need.

[FearTec]

1:1 ratio, cant you use Mip Mapping with multiple levels of textures for when the mesh is away from the camera. This will reduce the load on the 3d pipeline for small fish far away

[feldon26]

Jim: I gotta agree with you here.

[feldon26]

To allow you to move the camera ruins all the shortcuts and tricks that will be necessary to produce a great 3D background for the aquariums.

[JimSachs]

I won't do anything which will make the objects look blurry/blocky. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Well, don't DO that!"

[feldon26]

Fear: with all due respect, you keep saying "why don't you just use DirectX this-or-that"

[FearTec]

feldon: what 3d things are we talking about? moving nodules on coral?

[feldon26]

Fear: why are multi-million dollar game developers not doing anything with the detail Jim wants even tho they are using all the things you talk about?

[FearTec]

Microsoft offer heaps of samples and functions to call, the hardware follows these features and the software should follow instead of the programmer re inventing the wheel.

[feldon26]

Microsoft's code examples are GARBAGE. We have a 20 page topic on Jim's problems with the Microsoft code.

[feldon26]

Can you please go find an example of something with the detail of Jim's Aquarium that's been done in DirectX? until then, let's let this be Jim's chat instead of Microsoft/DirectX chat.

[FearTec]

But Jim uses DirectX?

[JimSachs]

Frae - DX6.

[FearTec]

multi million dollar developers are making things that push the hardware.

[feldon26]

Fear: yeah, think of how much work the hardware has to do just to let you move the camera when Jim can do even BETTER stuff on 1/10th the hardware just by locking the camera.

[feldon26]

Fear: "if I push this button, it will let me do wonderful things"

[feldon26]

Fear: doesn't work like that

[FearTec]

"Microsoft's code examples are GARBAGE." Examples?

[feldon26]

Jim rewrote the Aquarium in DirectX 8 and had serious problems. Microsoft told him to stick it in his ear basically.

[feldon26]

Fear: look at the e-mail lists about the DirectX 8 screen saver code and all the bugs in it.

[JimSachs]

OK, Morgan -- he was just asking....

[feldon26]

I sure seem like an angry *****, don't I. :(

[JimSachs]

The main problem I had with DX8 was the removal of the ability to know which page you are displaying, the front or back buffer.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: beside the swinging plant and individuale fish behaviour, what else is the new feature that saltwater one don't have?

[JimSachs]

James - VERY realistic bubbles from the trasure chest. Probably the best feature.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: bubbles? humm....and can the position of bubble column be adjustable like AquaReal? I like that feature

[JamesNZ]

Jim: I know the tresure chest can be turn on and off, but can it move?

[JimSachs]

No

[JamesNZ]

Jim ic

[JamesNZ]

Jim: how about the fish's movement get distored when it swim across the bubble column? like AquaReal's fish would float up due to the current around bubbles

[FearTec]

Can future fish be modified to allow you to adjust the speed and size etc?

[JimSachs]

Maybe, within limits.

[FearTec]

e.g feed the fish and the fish will grow 0.005%, over time the fish will be larger.

[JimSachs]

Can't increase the size much. Collision problems.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: that a good idea!! Fish's belly should become a little bigger after feed

[JimSachs]

Than wouldn't be too hard, but I wonder if anyone would notice.

[JamesNZ]

and then it shrink after a time period and become hungry again

[FearTec]

I know when I feed my fish too much food they get fat for 2 days

[JamesNZ]

Fish would become sluggish after feed, so the individual behaviour could design like that, just make it swim less after feed

[FearTec]

James: Have "Hunger" state. more hungry will mean it will look for food, less will be slow and sluggish

[FearTec]

How is the collision detection being detected now?

[JimSachs]

Center of fish to center of fish.

[Jav400]

Fear: all the current fish except the lionfish use the same profile, like a bubble around each fish that isn't allowed to touch, if I understand right that is

[FearTec]

Jim: Does DX6 have a ComputeBoundingBox for the Frame object that tells you the size of the fish/mesh?

[JimSachs]

Bounding-boxes don't work very well since their corners stick out so far.

[FearTec]

ok

[FearTec]

What about loading all faces into an Vertex Array the doing a collision detection routine.

[JimSachs]

It's not really when fish or bounding-boxes TOUCH, it's trying to predict WHEN they would touch based on the direction and velocity of each fish (which changes at random). EXTREMELY difficult.

[feldon26]

FearTec: the aquarium does not do collision detection. It does collision avoidance. It is an entirely different thing that is 10 times as complex to do.

[feldon26]

Fear: 2 fish swimming into each other and then struggling to get around each other is not natural and ruins the look. Instead, the fish predictively avoid swimming into each other.

[JimSachs]

Not collision-detection, but collision-prediction. Even harder with one school of fish approaching another from behind.

[FearTec]

Programmatically no but CPU intensive, maybe? Maybe it can be an option for faster CPU's?

[feldon26]

Fear: the Aquarium already does it on a Pentium II 300 mhz.

[JamesNZ]

how about make the long string of poo of fish attached on its belly after feed (of coz not immideate effect LOL), but it might also introduce the collision prob

[feldon26]

James: you're the 6th person I've seen wanting fish poop in their aquarium. an interesting statistic.

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: LOL, well, if there's only "input" to fish but no "output"...it's not realistic

[feldon26]

James: the Lionfish is not killing and eating smaller fish like the royal gramma or the damsel in the saltwater... it's not realistic.

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: ok, but let the fish poop is better than none, just let it poop but when the poo finaly detach from thefish, it gradualy drop to bottom and fade out(make it disapper, so we wont' need the filtration system)

[feldon26]

James: sorry, I don't want fish poop.

[feldon26]

James: SereneScreen, not gross-out-screen

[FearTec]

Fish poop will be good. It may make people understand the nitrogen cycle.

[feldon26]

it will also make them recycle their food. :)

[FearTec]

Maybe a feature for the glass to get dirty and you have to clean it with a magnetic cleaner thingy.

[Jav400]

lol I went thru all that with a real tank for years, this one is much better :)

[JimSachs]

James - It's an idealzed world, Like movies are supposed to be. Lots of scenes in restaurants, but I always cringe when the camera follows someone into the bathroom.

[JamesNZ]

Morgan: LOL, ok, fair enough :)

[Jav400]

I don't want to have to do water changes either :)

[FearTec]

Water changes would be cool in the freshwater version. Not all of us live by the sea.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: I understand :)

[FearTec]

Jim, What is the most exciting new feature that you are working on?

[JimSachs]

Probably the moving plants. I think it will give the aquarium a much more life-like feel.

[FearTec]

(paraphrased--James: I notice you are in New Zealand. I'm in Australia but have been to NZ.)

[JamesNZ]

Fear: really? where did u visit? I'm in Akl

[FearTec]

James: NZ South Island, christch, dunedin, te anau, milford, doubtful, mt cook, wanaka, nelson etc

[JimSachs]

Been to Christchurch many times. Beautiful place.

[JamesNZ]

Jim: cch(Christchurch) is in south island, Ionly been to there once, I live in Akl for 8 years

[FearTec]

James, New Zealand is the best place in the world. You are lucky.

[JimSachs]

I always loved going to NZ and Australia.

[FearTec]

They are nice places, so much open space.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: yes, the only clean place on Earth

[JamesNZ]

but not so clean

[JamesNZ]

air pollution in city region sucks

[FearTec]

James, The south NZ island was so clean we pulled over to fill out water bottles with water straight from your hundreds of lakes.

[FearTec]

The only thing to watch for was avalanches and the cold water.

[FearTec]

Will there be joints in the plants or rotation from a point?

[FearTec]

Maybe a fishtank editor would be good (File - New Fishtank - Then select the 2D backgrounds and gravel etc.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: yup, but I think th elss editable feature, the better originality on SSA, as Jim's an artist, he won't like ppl mess around his art work

[FearTec]

But Jim would make the textures and objects. He will still be an artist.

[JimSachs]

I'll be doing a wide 3D background instead, like the Marine Aquarium.

[JimSachs]

That was my original plan, but too many other things to do.

[FearTec]

Why do kids play with Lego when they are 3 years old. People like to play with things and interact.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: yes, I'm not saying completely non-editable, but not too much

[JamesNZ]

feeding is also interactive..

[FearTec]

Jim: Maybe an option in v2.0 to to allow the fish to have favorite places in the tank.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: that's the territorial mind of fish, Jim's planing on that

[JimSachs]

maybe

[FearTec]

Jim: Maybe an option in v2.0 to allow for fish to observe others e.g if one fish thinks it see's a peice of food it will dart to that point. Then other fish see that fish and move in thinking they will get food aswell. But really the first fish did not find food and the rest of the fish go back to swimming. CHAOS Theory.

[feldon26]

Fear: all the things you are talking about are possible with advanced programming and physics and modeling.

[feldon26]

Fear: Jim is an artist, not a mathemetician.

[FearTec]

Neither an I but I can imagine how to do it. I suck at maths but I still play with code to do this.

[JimSachs]

Could take a lot of clock cycles.

[FearTec]

Jim: Have a second thread called AIStuff and whe the CPU is free between frames it can work on AI functions. Faster CPU's woudl handle it anyway but have a Queue of AI functions desired between frames.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: that requires advance obstacle avoidance tech, I know it's hard, as I'm doing the Robotics Engineering, it's super hard to do the abstacle avoidance

[FearTec]

James: But it will be enjoyable for the user to see this in action. Who cares if the CPU thought the last function it processed was hard work.

[JamesNZ]

Fear: yes of, but let's let other youngs to worry that as Jim said, or else we never see Jim complete the aquarium in time

[Jav400]

Jim: I know once long ago I mentioned about my fish taking in and blowing out food before eating it, I think this was to break it up onto smaller pieces really, and you said that you liked that idea, is it still in consideration for the feeding option?

[JimSachs]

Yes

[Jav400]

:)

[JamesNZ]

Jav: u mean the fish spit out the food b4 they actually swallow it?

[JimSachs]

Yes, very common.

[Jav400]

James: Yes, it was the longnnosed butterfly that did this most often, but the others did also at various times

[FearTec]

Floating pellets are often hard and by spitting it out a few times softens the food.

[Jav400]

this happened with frozen brine alot also

[JamesNZ]

Jav: exactly, glad to hear Jim would implement this feature/behaviour

[Ralph58]

Trout do that all the time while fly fishing

[JamesNZ]

Ralph: Correct, NZ has many Trout fishing competition and they talk about that too

[FearTec]

Will a small ammount of interaction be added to the tank? e.g Move the mouse and the fish follow it or at least move down to see what is moving.

[Jav400]

Fear: a tap on the glass feature is being considered

[JimSachs]

Just feeding the fish and tapping on the glass.

[FearTec]

Jim: Is the fishtank programming a 9 to 5 job or is it a hobby?

[Jav400]

9 to 5 might be a relief on some days :)

[JimSachs]

Often it's a 16-20 hour a day job. Lately I've been putting a lot of time into the house. After 30 years, I finally have a roof that doesn't leak into the computer room.

[FearTec]

Jav400: Do you program the tank aswell?

[Jav400]

Fear: No, just have been here for years and from past posts know how much time Jim puts in

[FearTec]

Jav400: Do you program?

[Jav400]

Fear: Not like Jim does, I am an Administrator on the forum and here in the chatroom. I run my own business mainly

[FearTec]

Jim: Are most of the hours you put in supporting people or adding new features or new programs?

[SachsGuest1_TN]

Jim! HOwdy from Tennessee :)

[JamesNZ]

Hello, Guest

[Jav400]

Hi Guest: you are in my neck of the woods :)

[SachsGuest1_TN]

Jav? Where are ya?

[SachsGuest1_TN]

I'm West TN

[Jav400]

TN: East here

[JamesNZ]

Jav: SG1? LOL, it reminds me the TV series Star Gate

[SachsGuest1_TN]

So Jim when is something new coming out for us in the marine?

[Jav400]

James: thats one of my favorite shows, I thought of that while I was abreviating :)

[SachsGuest1_TN]

sorry I'm late, that is prob already been answered :(

[Jav400]

SG1: release dates are hard things to give. Jim is burried hip deep in finishing the freshwater version right now.

[SachsGuest1_TN]

OIC

[FearTec]

Jav400: When is the BETA release date?

[Jav400]

Fear: Basicially when its ready, thats not intended to be a "smart" answer. Its just that with everything going on, there is no way to predict a day

[FearTec]

Jim: Will the new fish have Bones and Joints?

[JimSachs]

FT - Some will have visible bones in the transparent areas.

[FearTec]

Jim: Bones as in 3D Mesh bones that you attach to Joints then assign polygons to them for realistic animations

[JimSachs]

FT - haven't seen bones used in realtime apps, only animations.

[FearTec]

OK

[FearTec]

Jim: Maybe a pH feature in the tank?

[JimSachs]

FT - Hard to visualize much a sales increase from that.

[Ralph58]

What is happening with the time version?

[JimSachs]

I guess Prolific is about to release it.

[Jav400]

Ralph: Time will be out very shortly

[JamesNZ]

I got to go now, going to the Lantern Festival gala tonight, NZ's prime minister will come join too :) Lantern Festival is important to all Chinese and Kiwis :)

[Jav400]

James: have fun :)

[JimSachs]

Happy lantern festval.

[JamesNZ]

just curious, is there any similar gala hold in USA?

[JamesNZ]

thx ppl

[Ralph58]

Jim.. With your freshwater version probably a working version now how do you test it? Just sit and watch for problems?

[JimSachs]

Ralph - No working version yet, but when it is, then yes.

[Ralph58]

So there is a working cycle.... not just a random continuation?

[FearTec_]

Jim: Do you have to get permission from Prolific to release a BETA of the new freshwater version?

[JimSachs]

FT - no, they are my publisher, and work for me.

[FearTec_]

good

[JimSachs]

They are also long-time friends, and neither would do anything which would mess up the plans of the other.

[JimSachs]

Ralph - When testing the aquarium I just sit and watch for problems. It usually only takes a few seconds to notice something that I don't like, and tear back into the code.

[FearTec_]

Jim: What is you main development machine and it's PC spec's? I would guess a P3 1ghz, 128MB, geforce2? (about average)

[JimSachs]

Recently upgraded to an AMD 1700, 256 megs of ram, Geforce 256.

[Ralph58]

Well that it for me....... Good night and keep up the good work Jim, looking forward to the freshwater tank.

[JimSachs]

Bye, Ralph

[feldon26]

wow, they are setting off fireworks at the new aquarium opening downtown. I can see it out the window.

[JimSachs]

Kind of late for an opening.

[feldon26]

That's what I thought. Apparently they finished painting the building today.

[feldon26]

the # of complaints when they put up the ferris wheel was pretty big.

[Gigazoid]

The only thing I see out my window is the moon, but what a moon

[Jav400]

hard to see fireworks in the daytime :)

[feldon26]

Michael: it's dark here at 7:30pm.

[Jav400]

oh ok

[JimSachs]

Maybe they got the ph wrong, and the fish are exploding.

[Jav400]

rofl

[JimSachs]

It's dark here at 5:30.

[feldon26]

Jim: it's dark at 4:30pm in New Hampshire in January. similar situation with trees all around, dark happens sooner.

[feldon26]

it was creepy to wake up and go to school in the dark and then it's dark again before you've even had dinner.

[JimSachs]

Well, New Hampshire in January, sure.

[JimSachs]

Also gets dark very early where I'm moving, in Oregon.

[feldon26]

So are you building the house there brick-by-brick? :)

[JimSachs]

Can't allow myself to design the house until after the Freshwater tank. It's my reward.

[FearTec_]

Sounds like a good reward.

[JimSachs]

Still very hard to keep all the ideas from occupying my thoughts, though.

[FearTec_]

You would be a millionare by now?

[Gigazoid]

I used to be in the Coast Guard and spent alot of time in Oregon.

[Jav400]

I feel like I'm there now, its rained for the last 3 days here

[FearTec_]

It last rained here (Australia) 3 months ago.

[FearTec_]

Water trucks are selling water to remote towns etc.

[JimSachs]

Doesn't rain that much where I'm going. Dry spot in a rain shadow. Only about 18 inches a year. Very green, though.

[Jav400]

well the only consolation is that its not that cold here right now, or I would be up to my eyes in snow

[Gigazoid]

I didnt catch where you live Jav

[Jav400]

Eastern tennessee

[Gigazoid]

Tennessee is a beautiful state.

[Jav400]

Thanks, I am about 50 miles from the Smoky Mountains

[Jav400]

I like it here

[JimSachs]

Here at Arrowhead, a 3-year drought and bark beetles have killed the forest.

[Gigazoid]

Jim dont throw rocks down the mountain, you might hit me.

[JimSachs]

OK

[JimSachs]

Went down the other side of the mountain to San Bernardino to see "Adaptation" today. Very interesting movie.

[Gigazoid]

Thumbs up or down?

[JimSachs]

Up

[JimSachs]

Way up.

[Gigazoid]

sounds like you enjoyed it alot, too bad you had to drive down the mountain to see it.

[JimSachs]

Well, better go now. Pizza's ready.

[feldon26]

Thanks for braving the chat, Jim and hope the best of luck on the obstacles.

[Gigazoid]

Thanks for taking the time to chat Jim, drop me a line if you feel like it.

[Jav400]

Thanks Jim

[JimSachs]

Thanks, everyone. See you all later.

[Jav400]

Well, hello Jim :)

[FishyBusiness]

Hello Jim.

[JimSachs]

Hi Guys.

[JimSachs]

Saw that there were 5 here, and thought I'd stop in for a minute.

[Jav400]

did you come in to tell us you have solved the world's problems?

[JimSachs]

Well, I spent the whole day at Prolific on Tuesday, and may have a tiny undersatnding of Will's code now.

[Jav400]

Jim: great :)

[JimSachs]

The 5 small .cpp files I gave them have turned into 39 big files.

[Jav400]

Jim: will this help you in your efforts on the freshwater in the fish or the background?

[JimSachs]

Hopefully both.

[Jav400]

Jim: what will this do in the immediate future for the file size? I know long range plans are different

[JimSachs]

Doesn't really change the final file size much, just a very convoluted way of getting there.

[FishyBusiness]

I'm watching as Jim jumps through the fire hoops...hehe

[Jav400]

Well at least you are headed in the right direction on understanding and getting things down pat

[JimSachs]

Hopefully.

[Jav400]

How do you like the new tools?

[JimSachs]

I was very close to going back to the year-old code that I turned in a year ago.

[JimSachs]

I've seen the new tools being used, but haven't been able to get them running myself.

[Jav400]

Do you feel more comfortable now about continuing with things they way they are now?

[JimSachs]

Yes, a little.

[Jav400]

Dang, I was hopeing that they were going to make your life easier :)

[FishyBusiness]

Once you get the hang of it, it will be a down hill slide.

[JimSachs]

Uh-oh -- phone. See ya later.